Extreme shades of "High Fidelity"
Posted by: Mike Hanson on 19 August 2003
I've been getting very bored with the Music Forum lately. I feel like I'm hanging around that dismal record shop from the movie "High Fidelity," where the two sad clerks spend their lives rating and categorizing music from the past. We're overrun by threads with such banal topics as:
How can these topics possibly improve my music listening pleasure?!? They're merely a pointless opportunity to chime in with your favorite classic bands, songs, etc. There is nothing new and special to be learnt here. The threads are a cheap and easy way to incite postings, because these targets are an easy score for anyone.
We need more threads like "Best album this year". These give us the chance to learn of new releases, emerging musical styles, etc. We can share our ideas, explore, and discover. It sure beats rehashing the same old tunes.
Sure the Beatles/Stones/etc. were great, but we all know that already, don't we? Please help to prevent the Music Forum from becoming the Internet equivalent of a "Golden Oldies" radio station.
Just so that nobody can call me a hypocrite, here are a few of my favourite albums of the last year or so. I know that some of these have already been mentioned here on the forum (some many times), but it's worth giving some of this newer stuff an extra vote of confidence, to induce those nostaligic souls to take try something different.
I haven't bothered to describe any of these, as I think you can get great coverage from www.allmusic.com, and/or listen to clips on www.amazon.com. (For Jory Nash info, check out www.jorynash.com.) If you're not already familiar with these, I suggest that you look into them.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
- Best Male Vocalist of all time
- Greatest ever Music Video
- Bands who have made 3 or more classic albums
- Bob Dylan Vs Neil Young
- the worst recording's ever?
How can these topics possibly improve my music listening pleasure?!? They're merely a pointless opportunity to chime in with your favorite classic bands, songs, etc. There is nothing new and special to be learnt here. The threads are a cheap and easy way to incite postings, because these targets are an easy score for anyone.
We need more threads like "Best album this year". These give us the chance to learn of new releases, emerging musical styles, etc. We can share our ideas, explore, and discover. It sure beats rehashing the same old tunes.
Sure the Beatles/Stones/etc. were great, but we all know that already, don't we? Please help to prevent the Music Forum from becoming the Internet equivalent of a "Golden Oldies" radio station.
Just so that nobody can call me a hypocrite, here are a few of my favourite albums of the last year or so. I know that some of these have already been mentioned here on the forum (some many times), but it's worth giving some of this newer stuff an extra vote of confidence, to induce those nostaligic souls to take try something different.
- Bonobo - Dial "M" for Monkey
- The Cinematic Orchestra - Man with a Movie Camera
- Max Tundra - Mastered by the Guy at The Exchange
- The Sea and Cake - One Bedroom
- Tahiti 80 - Wallpaper For the Soul
- Ani Difranco - Evolve
- Jory Nash - Lo Fi Northern Blues
I haven't bothered to describe any of these, as I think you can get great coverage from www.allmusic.com, and/or listen to clips on www.amazon.com. (For Jory Nash info, check out www.jorynash.com.) If you're not already familiar with these, I suggest that you look into them.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Derek Wright
But Mike - you fell into the "High Fidelity" trap - you have produced a list called Mike's 2003 favourites.
Please tell us why you like them, is it the emotion, the words, the rythm, orchestration. Why should we be interested in them.
Tell us how they fit into the evolution of music etc etc.
Apologies for being pedantic
Derek
<<Have you checked your PTs today>>
Please tell us why you like them, is it the emotion, the words, the rythm, orchestration. Why should we be interested in them.
Tell us how they fit into the evolution of music etc etc.
Apologies for being pedantic
Derek
<<Have you checked your PTs today>>
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Mike Hanson
Originally posted by Derek Wright:
Actually, I don't think I did. What I said was:
I'm not asking for a series of dissertations corresponding to each album, although a short blurb can sometimes be helpful. More often than not, though, the person mentioning the cool new album doesn't describe it a manner that moves me to purchase it. Even a "proper" source like www.allmusic.com doesn't always expose the music's qualities sufficiently for me to lay my cash on the barrelhead.
What I'm looking for are shortlists of the best new music. If I see something mentioned a few times here and there, then I do a quick check on AllMusic. If it still intrigues me, then I listen to a few snippets at one of the on-line stores. If I'm pleased with what I hear, then I buy the album. Probably 75% of the music that I've purchased over the past year was gleaned in this fashion.
No one can guarantee that I'll like something, and my tastes are constantly evolving (and revolving). My best friend, who's been listening to music with me for 30 years, occasionally attempts to peg me, but he rarely succeeds. I just appreciate having someone list the potential "winners". In the end, I am the arbiter of all that I survey.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
quote:
But Mike - you fell into the "High Fidelity" trap...
Actually, I don't think I did. What I said was:
quote:
.... These give us the chance to learn of new releases, emerging musical styles, etc. We can share our ideas, explore, and discover....
I'm not asking for a series of dissertations corresponding to each album, although a short blurb can sometimes be helpful. More often than not, though, the person mentioning the cool new album doesn't describe it a manner that moves me to purchase it. Even a "proper" source like www.allmusic.com doesn't always expose the music's qualities sufficiently for me to lay my cash on the barrelhead.
What I'm looking for are shortlists of the best new music. If I see something mentioned a few times here and there, then I do a quick check on AllMusic. If it still intrigues me, then I listen to a few snippets at one of the on-line stores. If I'm pleased with what I hear, then I buy the album. Probably 75% of the music that I've purchased over the past year was gleaned in this fashion.
No one can guarantee that I'll like something, and my tastes are constantly evolving (and revolving). My best friend, who's been listening to music with me for 30 years, occasionally attempts to peg me, but he rarely succeeds. I just appreciate having someone list the potential "winners". In the end, I am the arbiter of all that I survey.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Tim Jones
Mike -
I'd rather be hanging around in a second-hand record shop than being beaten up in yet another Padded Cell fight about racks...
Tim
I'd rather be hanging around in a second-hand record shop than being beaten up in yet another Padded Cell fight about racks...
Tim
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Mike Hanson
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Jones:
I'd rather be hanging around in a second-hand record shop than being beaten up in yet another Padded Cell fight about racks...
I'm with you there. I wasn't denigrating record shops. I was complaining about the pointless banter involving over-discussed music of yesteryear.
In case you couldn't tell from the veiled references in my post, I'm a relativist. No can decide for you or me what is going to be enjoyable. In something so subjective as stereos, there's certainly no "right" or "wrong". The fact that I prefer Mana over Fraim should be meaningless to all others. Solidarity in these matters is a pointless goal.
You should enjoy what you do, share your ideas (if that gives you pleasure) for the possible appreciation of others, try to evolve as an individual, and don't waste your life dwelling on the past.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Minky
Nice one Mike.
Can I add to the list of things that piss me off on this forum : "vast lists". I could post the stocklist of my local CDsRUs but what would be the point ?
What I want to see is more PASSION for music. If an album really presses my buttons I want to share it with other people so they can enjoy it too.
I agree that if enough short lists are posted patterns will emerge (I wouldn't have bothered with Blur's new one if it hadn't kept coming up on this forum, or grandaddy, or the eels - thanks for that) but I am not sure if there is enough volume for this to work. I reckon that a small description (enough to at least establish genre and a point of reference), e.g. "Beck meets Johnny Cash" is required. I don't have time to drill down through 100 album titles by people I have never heard of.
And if I post a rave it would be great to get some replies along the lines of "if you think that's good, wait till you hear ..".
Oh, and this should be for rediscovered fossils too. I have bought a lot of 50's and 60's jazz lately and want to tap the brains of our resident jazz experts.
Can I add to the list of things that piss me off on this forum : "vast lists". I could post the stocklist of my local CDsRUs but what would be the point ?
What I want to see is more PASSION for music. If an album really presses my buttons I want to share it with other people so they can enjoy it too.
I agree that if enough short lists are posted patterns will emerge (I wouldn't have bothered with Blur's new one if it hadn't kept coming up on this forum, or grandaddy, or the eels - thanks for that) but I am not sure if there is enough volume for this to work. I reckon that a small description (enough to at least establish genre and a point of reference), e.g. "Beck meets Johnny Cash" is required. I don't have time to drill down through 100 album titles by people I have never heard of.
And if I post a rave it would be great to get some replies along the lines of "if you think that's good, wait till you hear ..".
Oh, and this should be for rediscovered fossils too. I have bought a lot of 50's and 60's jazz lately and want to tap the brains of our resident jazz experts.
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Mike Hanson
quote:
Originally posted by Minky:
What I want to see is more PASSION for music. If an album really presses my buttons I want to share it with other people so they can enjoy it too.
This is exactly what I enjoy from others (and try do myself). What bugs me, though, is when it's all the same old stuff being bandied about, ad infinitum.
A brief description is also a good thing, assuming that it hits the mark. Too often something's described in generic terms that could apply to anything. E.g. "This new album contains great music!" How useless is that? I like your idea of comparing it to others, and possibly pigeonholing it in a genre (if possible). With that in mind, here's my updated list:
- Bonobo - Dial "M" for Monkey - Jazz-influenced electronica, with a laid-back locked in groove. It's kind of like a more rhythmic version of Boards of Canada. Much of it has a subtle funky edge.
- The Cinematic Orchestra - Man with a Movie Camera - Rhythmic mood music, having a general "background" feel, with the exception of a couple of real stand-out numbers (in both style and quality).
- Max Tundra - Mastered by the Guy at The Exchange - Experimental electronica, with the numerous nods to other styles, artists, etc. You'll hear everything from video game sounds to stuff that reminds you of Daft Punk. It's never, ever predictable. Just as soon as you think he's really locked into a groove, he'll throw you for an extreme loop. Nothing is sacred; everything is fun. At times it can be acerbic, but it's worth it just to experience the oddness of it all.
- Tahiti 80 - Wallpaper For the Soul - Dreamy, but ambitious pop, a bit like a non-caustic version of Super Furry Animals.
- The Sea and Cake - One Bedroom - This is also dreamy pop like Tahiti 80, but "breezy" might be a better adjective. It also has echoes of China Crisis.
- Ani Difranco - Evolve - Bluesy, jazzy, saucy, angry, irreverent and fun. The ensemble is really tight, with wonderful, spontaeous-sounding arrangements.
- Jory Nash - Lo Fi Northern Blues - Folk with a slight pop edge, reminiscent of a simpler version of today's Paul Simon
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Mike Hanson
Fredrik,
I understand what you're saying. Yes, it was a bit of a rant, but I am tired of seeing the same old detritus filling the pages of the forum.
For me, music is equivalent to a journey. I want to visit new places all of the time, and occasionally revisit those that were really good from the past. It helps to have people suggest the "best" places, as I'll never have time to see the entire world.
Also, the actual experience of music for me is virtually all sensation, and has little to do with the surrounding details. I don't care much who's playing, what the liner notes say, what the lyrics are, etc. All that matters is, "How does it make me FEEL?"
This is why it's hard to describe. Everyone is going to have a different response to a particular piece of music, so I'm reluctant to try to pigeonhole it. The best thing to do is try it for your self. However, there's so much music out there, that we need help getting to a manageable list of possibilities. That's why I keep coming back to the Naim forum (among others), because it is populated with people who seem to be familiar with what I consider to be "good" new music.
So enjoy your music, and I'll enjoy mine. Perhaps ours tastes will overlap, and perhaps they won't. It doesn't really matter either way. Maybe we'll share a musical suggestion, and our lives will be the better for it.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
I understand what you're saying. Yes, it was a bit of a rant, but I am tired of seeing the same old detritus filling the pages of the forum.
For me, music is equivalent to a journey. I want to visit new places all of the time, and occasionally revisit those that were really good from the past. It helps to have people suggest the "best" places, as I'll never have time to see the entire world.
Also, the actual experience of music for me is virtually all sensation, and has little to do with the surrounding details. I don't care much who's playing, what the liner notes say, what the lyrics are, etc. All that matters is, "How does it make me FEEL?"
This is why it's hard to describe. Everyone is going to have a different response to a particular piece of music, so I'm reluctant to try to pigeonhole it. The best thing to do is try it for your self. However, there's so much music out there, that we need help getting to a manageable list of possibilities. That's why I keep coming back to the Naim forum (among others), because it is populated with people who seem to be familiar with what I consider to be "good" new music.
So enjoy your music, and I'll enjoy mine. Perhaps ours tastes will overlap, and perhaps they won't. It doesn't really matter either way. Maybe we'll share a musical suggestion, and our lives will be the better for it.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 19 August 2003 by Bruce Woodhouse
In the spirit of your post I have produced another thread here which may help prospective voyagers into new music. I think one of the problems is that the vocabulary to describe why an album presses your buttons is not always easy. People write all sorts of pretentious twaddle about systems (many of which they have not even heard) but find it hard to describe why an album makes them jump up and down.
This is certainly true about me anyway. Look in the thread, I even used 'dry' and 'juicy' in a review within one sentence!
Bruce
This is certainly true about me anyway. Look in the thread, I even used 'dry' and 'juicy' in a review within one sentence!
Bruce
Posted on: 20 August 2003 by seagull
I agree that listing favourites ad nauseum is pretty pointless but it does give you an idea of where someone is coming from.
I have picked up several recommendations from here by reading peoples posts who seem to have tastes overlapping with my own so if they say a new album is good it may be worth a try.
I have picked up several recommendations from here by reading peoples posts who seem to have tastes overlapping with my own so if they say a new album is good it may be worth a try.
Posted on: 20 August 2003 by HTK
Yes Mike. Stale is boring. Just look at the Hi-Fi Corner for some really good examples of people stating and restating the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. And a lot of the equipment discussed is old - nearly as old as me in some cases.
Maybe because I've only been in the Music Room for a year or so, I'm not so affected by the content. I'm right with you on your comments but being totally selfish I must plead that we don't throw babies out with bath water. I'm always looking for new stuff but I've also managed to miss some good stuff over the years. Or maybe my tastes have changed. Either way, the Misic Room has from time to time allowed me to "discover" the odd thing which I can't believe I missed the first time round.
Hope that makes sense.
Maybe because I've only been in the Music Room for a year or so, I'm not so affected by the content. I'm right with you on your comments but being totally selfish I must plead that we don't throw babies out with bath water. I'm always looking for new stuff but I've also managed to miss some good stuff over the years. Or maybe my tastes have changed. Either way, the Misic Room has from time to time allowed me to "discover" the odd thing which I can't believe I missed the first time round.
Hope that makes sense.
Posted on: 20 August 2003 by Mike Hanson
Thanks for chiming in, guys.
Bruce, you'll noticed that I've already given you kudos on your thread. I'll go through some of my favourites that I thought were "just like" other bands, and add them to your thread.
Seagull, yes I often use that "overlapping tastes" strategy to narrow my search. It's not that kind of favorites list that I dislike, though. It's the constant, high-level "Best of" lists, which invariably include the same artists/works again, and again, and again, and again, and again...
HTK, I also occasionally learn about older albums that I've "missed". If people are mentioning great stuff from days gone by, then that's OK. If it's something that's already been mentioned eight million times, though, then it's not worth the trouble. For example, an individual asks for a good jazz album, and someone suggests Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue". Sure it's a great album, but suggesting it is an awful cliché. There are so many other fantastic albums out there, that hearing this mentioned again is a big disappointment.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Bruce, you'll noticed that I've already given you kudos on your thread. I'll go through some of my favourites that I thought were "just like" other bands, and add them to your thread.
Seagull, yes I often use that "overlapping tastes" strategy to narrow my search. It's not that kind of favorites list that I dislike, though. It's the constant, high-level "Best of" lists, which invariably include the same artists/works again, and again, and again, and again, and again...
HTK, I also occasionally learn about older albums that I've "missed". If people are mentioning great stuff from days gone by, then that's OK. If it's something that's already been mentioned eight million times, though, then it's not worth the trouble. For example, an individual asks for a good jazz album, and someone suggests Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue". Sure it's a great album, but suggesting it is an awful cliché. There are so many other fantastic albums out there, that hearing this mentioned again is a big disappointment.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 22 August 2003 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Hanson:
For example, an individual asks for a good jazz album, and someone suggests Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue". Sure it's a great album, but suggesting it is an awful cliché. There are so many other fantastic albums out there, that hearing this mentioned again is a big disappointment.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Hi Mike
I think that you may be missing a point - if someone does ask for a good jazz album, it will probably imply that they have just discovered jazz. To the dyed in the wool afficionado KoB may be a stale cliche, but to the new boy, advice is needed and if this is the answer, then it is the answer. (BTW I had not heard of it )
Regards
Mike
On the Yellow Brick Road and happy
Posted on: 23 August 2003 by ejl
quote:
The [recent] threads are a cheap and easy
way to incite postings, because these targets are an easy score for anyone. We need more threads like "Best album this year".
quote:
Just so that nobody can call me a hypocrite, here are a few of my favourite albums of the last year or so.
Mike,
I'm going to call you a hypocrite .
There are many threads here discussing new music. Recent examples include the "Nick Lees' Head as Quality Index" thread, the "Album of the year so far" thread of a few weeks ago, and many more specialized threads of recent weeks and months, such as the jazz fusion thread, the new and unknown classical music thread, the hip-hop heads thread, etc. Look at these and you'll find the discussions, reports, ratings, comparisions, and recommendations of lots of new music that you claim to be missing from the Music Room.
Looking at your own posts of recent months, you have hardly participated in any of these music discussion threads, posting most frequently here on the Norah Jones controversy thread.
So there seems something hypocritical in your criticism.
And as you imply, with the exception of Tahiti 80 and Jory Nash, every one of your recommendations has been discussed in the Music Room at great length for months, so when you attack people for suggesting great albums on the grounds that, as you put it, "There are so many other fantastic
albums out there, that hearing this mentioned again is a big disappointment," this also seems to verge on hypocrisy.
So sorry, but your whole critique seems to be misguided. Maybe you've been reading the wrong threads?
Eric
Posted on: 23 August 2003 by matthewr
What Eric said.
The Music Forum is small but beautifully formed as especially if you ignore the obvious "Dad Rock" threads. There might only be 6 regular contributors but they do coer a wide area of music and generate some excellent recommendations and you'll find the vast majority of albums in most year end lists get mentioned here. Its not as good as it was as the Music Room seems disproportinally affected by retirements and defections ot PFM but there are still regulr new music threads abound -- so props to Eric, Alex G., Nick Lees, Mekon, Ludwig, Minky, Rasher, the other nickc who (off the top of my head) who have all made recent contributiuons.
Matthew
The Music Forum is small but beautifully formed as especially if you ignore the obvious "Dad Rock" threads. There might only be 6 regular contributors but they do coer a wide area of music and generate some excellent recommendations and you'll find the vast majority of albums in most year end lists get mentioned here. Its not as good as it was as the Music Room seems disproportinally affected by retirements and defections ot PFM but there are still regulr new music threads abound -- so props to Eric, Alex G., Nick Lees, Mekon, Ludwig, Minky, Rasher, the other nickc who (off the top of my head) who have all made recent contributiuons.
Matthew
Posted on: 25 August 2003 by Mike Hanson
Sorry if I came off a bit strong, but I'm rather touchy right now. There's a new radio station here in Toronto called "Jack", which plays a hodge-podge of popular music (i.e. mostly schlock). This, among other indicators, is highlighting the tragic dumbing-down of culture that's occurring in our world today.
I come to the Naim forum for a bit of surcease from the banality of "normal", and it irks me to see the same old tripe paraded about here. My fellow Canadian, Bruce Cockburn, opined, "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse." Although he wasn't addressing my pet peeve of the moment, the phrase seems to fit terribly well.
Now I'll go back to saying nothing, unless I've got something entertaining and/or informative to add to the conversations.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
I come to the Naim forum for a bit of surcease from the banality of "normal", and it irks me to see the same old tripe paraded about here. My fellow Canadian, Bruce Cockburn, opined, "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse." Although he wasn't addressing my pet peeve of the moment, the phrase seems to fit terribly well.
Now I'll go back to saying nothing, unless I've got something entertaining and/or informative to add to the conversations.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-