New possibility of a total smoking ban in England

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
Come on Domf, you know that's daft and not the same thing at all. Have you been down the pub lunchtime again?

Nope. Technically I don't think that argument IS daft either. You can get cancer from any EMI in theory - e.g. electronic circuits, so how can you confirm that second hand smoke actually DOES cause cancer? My mum has never smoked nor frequents smokey places, yet has had cancer twice, for example.

Whether it's because detection rates have gone up (highly likely) or because electricity, radio waves etc have been sprung on us in the last 140 years has caused cancer rates to rise (also highly likely), you can't argue that more and more people are getting cancer, while less and less people smoke.

I'd love to know whether transport pollution can cause cancer - if so, then you driving majority are killing the minority like me who can't drive

quote:

Originally posted by domfjbrown:

how can you confirm that second hand smoke actually DOES cause cancer? My mum has never smoked nor frequents smokey places, yet has had cancer twice, for example.

Epidemiological studies that factor out other influences such as the ones you mention confirm that second hand smoke increases the chances of people exposed getting smoking related cancers. There's a lot of information of the net, Dom, if you want to see search for it.

These are statistical methods; you can't use the 'My mum lived in a pub till she was 90' arguments.

Smoking isn't the only cause of cancer of course.

Regards

Stephen

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
You have to wonder why I stareted at 35 to smoke.

I don't. Your friends are pipe smoking ladies!



If you want to die early, why not do something useful with your life? Go and be a peace keeper in Iraq or work in dangerous areas of the world helping kids or join Greenpeace and go out in a
small boat and save whales or something.



Stephen

Are you married, Stephen? The reason I ask is that what you posted immediately above is just about as stupid and patronising as if I were to comment that your were married to someone who I thought an ugly old bat, who I thought you would have had better taste than to go within ten feet of, that would be no less offensive!

The thrust of your post is beneath contempt, and, as you have no idea what I do either for a living or when not earning a living, I would suggest you think quite hard whether to quietly deleting that monumentally silly and ignorant post! If you do so, I shall get rid of this. Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:

[...] As for pipe smoke - some of it smells ok but I still wouldn't date a woman with a pipe.

Cheers!

Nice one Eric! But actually now you mention it I used to know the most amazing woman who smoked clay pipes, followed hounds on foot, and ran a farm single handed, having lost her husband. In a way she was an honary man, but she was a kind person, whom I have very fond memories of. She was very good with children, though she had none of her own. You may also see that if I grew up in an environment where such characters were regarded as normal, that I am out of my time in the 21st century, and so am likely to seem rather non-PC myself sometimes. I just think there ought to room for alsorts, which is less and less the case. I smoke a pipe as well, but it takes too long in the confines of a half hour lunch break. How I wish life allowed for the time to gently relax, rather than push-push all the time, and then for next to nought. In the old days we used to do more I am sure before all the nanying to make people work, and so on. Yes, indeed, I am out of my time, and know all too well...

All the best from Fredrik

Well Fredrik, your pipe smoking lady sounds very interesting and she seems to have enriched your life, no doubt she would afford far better company over dinner than your Jordans or any other of the currant bimbo celeb infestation we have to endure in the media. The most remarkable woman I ever met was a neighbour of mine when I lived in Oslo - she had fought the Nazis as part of the Norwegian resistance movement and I would rather have spent 10 mins listening to her stories than a dirty weekend in Brighton with any of the tarts on celebrity big brother!

Dera Eric,

As you know I am half Norwegian, and my grandfather was a very important leader in the resistance, so that when the Gestapo caught a certain radio opperator my grandfther had to disappear for the last eighteen months of the war... You can imagine what tales I was told, and yet he almost never got the end of the story. I imagine some of what they did still pained him very much...

In my time I have had the life enhancing experience of meeting many people who would not thrive too well in these PC times. Mt first girl-friend's father used to delight in a question of personal position on racism, which I will refrain from posting here as it was off colour then, but then if you upset him, he would ball at you that he had shot Germans for less, and of course that was true enough! After they were only good Germans fighting for their country, and he fight for ours. Not everything was admirable, but life would have been duller without such people!

I actually wish I had been of that generation, if you see what I mean. I would have fitted in quite well I think, and all the best from Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Dera Eric,

As you know I am half Norwegian, and my grandfather was a very important leader in the resistance, so that when the Gestapo caught a certain radio opperator my grandfther had to disappear for the last eighteen months of the war... You can imagine what tales I was told, and yet he almost never got the end of the story. I imagine some of what they did still pained him very much...

In my time I have had the life enhancing experience of meeting many people who would not thrive too well in these PC times. Mt first girl-friend's father used to delight in a question of personal position on racism, which I will refrain from posting here as it was off colour then, but then if you upset him, he would ball at you that he had shot Germans for less, and of course that was true enough! After they were only good Germans fighting for their country, and he fight for ours. Not everything was admirable, but life would have been duller without such people!

I actually wish I had been of that generation, if you see what I mean. I would have fitted in quite well I think, and all the best from Fredrik

Well I didnt know you were half Norwegian but suspected you had some connection given your name. I love Norway, I worked for a Norwegian language school in england for many summers and spent my winters as a pro squash coach in Oslo so for many years I had more Norwegian friends than english. I have not been back there for approx 15 years - im sure it has changed alot.

I met several senior resistance fighters, not just mrs. hayerdahl but male members of 'Kompaniet Linge' (spelling?)and had a guided tour of the resistance museum in akerhus slottet (sp?) by another former member who was a prof. of english literature at Oslo univ. he was ancient but still played squash at a suicidal pace, he was half english half neorwegian and was delightfully eccentric - im trying to remember his name....ragnar Kristofferson I think and someone else with the surname Hauge? Any relation?

Dear Eric,

My Grandfather was Fredrik Hjalmar Johansen, and was one of the three who were in charge of 'Group 13' whose area was that strip on the east side of the Oslo Fjord between the sea and Sweden, which of course was a rather significant area. Right at the start of the lightning invasion he was intimately involved in the destruction of the Bluecher, which at least had benefit of ridding the world of a some very nasty officials of the Gestapo, others of whom, to this day, are still the reason Germans are rarely welcomed as warmly at Brits in that land. Have you ever wondered why Norway has failed to join the EU? Unified Germany was even today, enough to decisively tip public opinion against it, and in my view they are better off out of it. Interestingly my grandfather was chosen for the 1936 Olympics, as a decathelete. His father refused to let him go, and thus his athletic career was more or less finished, for a perfect fine moral stance. Also interesting, to me was the fact that my grandfather actually had quite a high opinion of German people, himself, even though that was rare enough in people of his generation, but not German politics, or even aims economically in the post war era. He thought Britain should have made more effort to take advantage of the good times, economically in the late fifties to regain its economic position, and was very frustrated by the nigh total colapse of British manufacturing. He was the most interesting person I ever knew, and we shared a view of old age. In many ways we were (and I still) am fatalists, which is why we got on so well I guess. The last time I saw him, apparently he cried for two hours when I left, and my grandmother said that was the only time she had seen him do that since the war. He told me one thing: Don't be afraid to hold your own opinion, so long as it is thought out, and disregard the soft-cored position that you spend too much time fitting in or pleasing others, unless it pleases you to do so. Thus you tend to only try to please those you truly love, which advice I find a good basis for life. In his case forged, I am sure, in the face of considerable struggle.

All the best from Fredrik

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Dear Eric,

My Grandfather was Fredrik Hjalmar Johansen,

Dear Fredrik,

Your grandfather must indeed have been a most intersting man and I would have liked to have met him. I have seen with my own eyes german backpackers trying to hitch a ride in Norway and thought it very amusing to see them 2 hours later still standing by the road when British packpackers were picked up instantly (its just a question of sporting the right flag on the back of one's rucksack). I've met many good germans over the years and still count a good few as friends - the simple truth is there are good and bad wherever you go.

What a pity your GF never got to go to the 36 olympics, those were historic games indeed - I used to have a complete set of the games programmes and, can you believe, I threw them away!

I've always felt Norwegian people were fundamentally good people (in fact I dont think of any nationality as fundamentally bad - not even the awful americans)and enjoyed my time there enormously 1981 to 83 working plus many other brief visits - I was only 21 when I went there to work and always considered it to have been a better education than any university. I had bad times there too including 2 court cases against dishonest employers one of whom had not got me a work permit as he had said he would and had me arrested as an illegal immigrant when I had the cheek to ask to be paid - a night in a prison cell followed by being thrown out of my staff flat and a night in sub zero tempratures shivering in a cardboard box and just when I thought it couldnt get any worse some drunks came and stoll my cardboard box! Great times. Anyway the police recognised I had a case against my employer, another squash club got me a lawyer, I won my case and all was well. I knew just about anyone who was anyone in Oslo society because squash was the game and met many very interesting people, prime ministers, MPs, TV and radio stars, models, shipping magnates, you name it. One special friend played trumpet at Den Norske Opera and I always had the best seats for the best performances of both opera and ballet. One special evening I went to see Nureyev in Don Xixote with my english girlfriend who had flown over to see me, sat directly behind the King of Norway and got to meet Nureyev after the performance and my GF got her programme autographed. Yes I miss Norway.

Another thing about the war, the SOE and kompani Linge is that although we often hear about the the SOE in France and the French resistance we hear so little about the incredible success of the Norwegian SOE which had more impact on the allies winning than anything the French did.

All the best,

Erik

Eric & Fredrik, this is way off topic but far more interesting than the smoking debate which has become rather polarised.

As an ex-smoker (of nearly 30 years) I can see both sides of the argument, so my views are less extreme than some given here. It is far easier to understand a smokers view, as someone who has previously smoked. Equally I can also understand why someone who has never smoked can be so vehement in their views.

Hypnotism was the thing that weaned me off for good.

Regards

Nic

quote:

Originally posted by nicnaim:
Eric & Fredrik, this is way off topic but far more interesting than the smoking debate which has become rather polarised.

As an ex-smoker (of nearly 30 years) I can see both sides of the argument, so my views are less extreme than some given here. It is far easier to understand a smokers view, as someone who has previously smoked. Equally I can also understand why someone who has never smoked can be so vehement in their views.

Hypnotism was the thing that weaned me off for good.

Regards

Nic

Interesting. How many sessions did it take? What was the cost involved? I would like to recommend hypnotism to friends who are struggling.

regards

Giving up smoking is really quite simple:

You spend a week (or more) in the foetal position on the sofa/settee sucking your thumb.

In the second week your rediscover your taste buds and all your favorite foods suddenly taste absolutely awful.

Then you spend 5 years being generally bad tempered with everyone who happens to cross your path. Road rage is your personal number plate.

The next several decades are spent bending the ear of all those who will listen as to how bad smoking is for non-smokers.

After that it's all downhill.

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:


Hypnotism was the thing that weaned me off for good.

Regards

Nic

Interesting. How many sessions did it take? What was the cost involved? I would like to recommend hypnotism to friends who are struggling.

regards[/QUOTE]

Eric,

Session was a one off fee off £250. The person who hypnotised me is a consultant anaesthetist in the NHS who uses it as an alternative to conventional analgesia when appropriate. The consultation was as part of her private practice.

The deal was that if I needed more sessions, it was covered within the original fee, with me being able to return as many times as required.

I have not been back since.

Original consultation required approximately 50 minutes of my smoking history, i.e. when I started, what I enjoyed/hated about smoking, the triggers, the effects of giving up, the props, the irritability etc. This was followed a similar length period of hypnotism, when basically this was regurgitated back to me, with the message that I was now an ex-smoker. I was told that while I could look back fondly on these memories, I no longer needed to smoke.

I can tell you that I felt completely conscious during the hypnotism, and could hear everything clearly, and that I basically thought it was an expensive load of bollocks.

The proof of the pudding is that I have not smoked for a year, and did this without a single piece of gum/patch, over eating, beating up the wife/kids etc.

Clearly I still drink like a fish. I should have asked about that at the same time!

Having previously given up through will power and nicotine replacement alone, for up to 5 years, I can tell you this seems to be the real deal. The desire to smoke has simply been switched off, where previously it always lurked under the surface, especially after a drink.

I still have friends who smoke, and have no problem being with them, it is only when you get home, or smell your clothes in the morning that I appreciate what I inflicted on others for years.

This will not work for everyone, you have to be susceptible to suggestion under hypnosis (clearly I am), but it worked for me.

Hope this helps.

Nic

[
This will not work for everyone, you have to be susceptible to suggestion under hypnosis (clearly I am), but it worked for me.

Hope this helps.

Nic[/QUOTE]

thanks for the info - was there an element of NLP?

Nic[/QUOTE]

thanks for the info - was there an element of NLP?[/QUOTE]

Eric,

You are going to have to help me out with the acronym. NLP = ?

Nic

quote:

Originally posted by nicnaim:
Nic

thanks for the info - was there an element of NLP?[/QUOTE]

Eric,

You are going to have to help me out with the acronym. NLP = ?

Nic[/QUOTE]

Nic,

Sorry, NLP = neuro linguistic programming - often used with hypnotism as a way of de-programming behaviour or thought patterns.

quote:

Originally posted by erik scothron:

quote:

Originally posted by nicnaim:
Nic

thanks for the info - was there an element of NLP?

Eric,

You are going to have to help me out with the acronym. NLP = ?

Nic[/QUOTE]

Nic,

Sorry, NLP = neuro linguistic programming - often used with hypnotism as a way of de-programming behaviour or thought patterns.[/QUOTE]

Eric,

I am now better informed, thank-you.

The method worked, I have not delved deeper into the details. I will check with my medical friends about whether NLP played a part.

Nic

The method worked, I have not delved deeper into the details. I will check with my medical friends about whether NLP played a part.

Nic[/QUOTE]

Hi Nic,

I have alot of respect for NLP since just 2 sessions cured a friend of mine who had a life long fear of spiders (she would freak just looking at a child's drawing of a spider. She can now hold a tarantula in her hand and stroke it! I believe there is something in NLP called the 'quick phobia cure' but it is way more than this and is used to model and achieve execellence in any field and thus its used alot in business and sport.

NLP's biggest exponent is probably Anthony Robbins, a U.S based motivational speaker who launched his own brand of it with a book called "Unlimited Power" in 1983 (I think).

There are plenty of references to this book on the websites and it can be picked up pretty cheap on Amazon for example.

I'm probably completely wrong but think NLP is different to hypnotism. The main technique I recall was for an individual to recall a moment from their life where a sense of pleasure or success was present, wrap it up in a bubble, focus on it in one's mind and then learn to recall it at will when needed.

I was a smoker for over 22 years and couldn't remember how I felt when I didn't smoke, so this technique didn't work for me. It was helpful in other areas of my life though.

I work with 2 people who have been to hynotists to quit and they've been clean for 2 years now.

I think hpnotism relies on auto-suggestion through the subconscious so I think this is where it differs to NLP which I believe to be a conscious process.

As I have only the experience of one book to fall back on and that was a long time ago, I am most likely to be wrong and would welcome any more enlightening explanations!

So...

It's gone through with implementation being summer 2007. A full ban, no exemptions (private clubs etc), and fines due to be increased to a whopping £2500. Thats an incentive if ever there was one.

quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4709258.stm

Justyn.

quote:

Originally posted by Justyn:
So...

It's gone through with implementation being summer 2007. A full ban, no exemptions (private clubs etc), and fines due to be increased to a whopping £2500. Thats an incentive if ever there was one.

quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4709258.stm

Justyn.

Hurrah! Hurrah! Rejoice! Stench free fresh air here we come and about time too. If people want to indulge in filthy habits they should do it in private, as what one does in provate is no ones business but one's own but polluting non-smokers with one's filthy stench should of course be criminalised.

Chaps

We have become more civilised.

Regards

Mick

And so a whole new industry will spring up with inovative ideas for 'smoking shelters' outside of places where smoking is now to be banned.
I can just see the planning applications piling up at all the council offices everywhere.
How many councils are going to be taken to the court of human rights for not supplying areas in which folks can smoke out of the wind and rain? (oh, that was somewhat tongue in cheek)

Mick

It's almost as stupid as banning drinking in pubs.

Regards

Earwicker

Earwicker

There is no point in moaning, the vote has been cast and smoking inside buildings will become a criminal act.

Live with it.

Regards

Mick.......celebrating with a malt