New possibility of a total smoking ban in England

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Someone implied that I was simple and f*cking stupid for pointing out that banning smoking in builings for smoking in was daft. I fight fire with fire. I smoke very rarely, but when I do I do so in the pub. Because that's what they're for.

EW[/QUOTE]

All joking aside (and my last post was certainly a joke) Retaliation is just immature in my view and just perpetuates a cycle of abuse and suffering - someone has to break the cycle, will it be you? 'He who plans revenge had better dig two graves' is a truth to remember. 'What goes around comes around' is another. Anger disturbs the mind - no wonder you can;t remember if you are a smoker or not!

The bollocks on here from the pro-smoking lobby is amazing. No-one is stopping you from smoking, the laws are purely designed to stop your disgusting habit from poisoning innocent bystanders.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:
The bollocks on here from the pro-smoking lobby is amazing. No-one is stopping you from smoking, the laws are purely designed to stop your disgusting habit from poisoning innocent bystanders.

Steve,

I agree with you completely and I find it incomprehensible that despite this point being made simply, eloguently and repeatedly that there are still people out in forum land and eleswhere that just don't get it - this inability to put themselves in other peoples shoes and smoke infested clothes in symptomatic of deeply ingrained selfishness engendered by desperate addiction - I do feel sorry for them but I will not indulge them.

Erik

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:
Because smoking is bad for us, and we are all too stupid to decide whether or not we wish to be exposed to it by going into pubs or sticking a fag in our mouths and setting fire to it.

EW

You never, never address the issue of workplace safety - because you have no regard for those who work in the entertainment industry apart from their availability for your convenience.

Again I ask; why should you have workplace protection and they shouldn't. That's all the argument is about.

Regards

Stephen

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:
The bollocks on here from the pro-smoking lobby is amazing. No-one is stopping you from smoking, the laws are purely designed to stop your disgusting habit from poisoning innocent bystanders.

Dear Steve,

I posted here and on other threads in the past. I smoke, and enjoy it. I shall obey the laws concerning smoking in public as I do the motoring laws, especially with regard to speeding. No one can cherry-pick what they want to obey, however agrieved they feel or however much the law may appear an ass. If nobody misbehaved, we should need no laws! Laws are always too blunt an instrument for certain rare cases, but that does not mean we, as a sociaety revoke laws simply because they don't fit certain individuals or situations too well...

I have never spouted B++++++s, and think that it is hard to see how anyone could nowadays justify inflicting their own pleasure on others - at least as far as smoking is concerned. The arguement against this is unsustainable. However, I bet I stop going to the pub! In a way I shall miss it, but what I really miss is that pubs are actually no longer what they once were either, so the situation is easy enough to bear. I mean the quiet country public house where the inmates are actually locals, rather than the hateful phenomenon of the urban bar with music and over loud conversation, so you cannot even hear yourself think! Gawd, I must be getting old!

All the best from Fredrik

My only regular exposure to pubs these days is after the Thursday night 5 A Side game, and before Newcastle home games. Tonight there was only one person in the pub smoking, and he was one of our players.

It strikes me that the voluntary move away from smoking in front of non smokers is clearly well underway, despite the pub location and the fact that it is still not illegal.

Admittedly a Thursday night is not the busiest night of the week and cannot be seen as typical. Certainly the Landlady seemed happy that at least definitive decision had been taken, rather than a fudge.

By contrast the pub that is geographically my local is already divided into smoking/non smoking halves. It has to be said, the smoking end is always the busiest, and seems to be where the action is.

Pure hedonism is always going to be more attractive and exciting to some, than relatively boring conformism.

As an ex smoker I can now understand how offensive smoking is to someone who has never smoked, but I tend to be reasonably tolerant as my ex status is still fairly recent.

Recently however, when part of a packed crowd leaving St. James' Park, my 9 year old told me that he felt very unwell, that his eyes were hurting and that he was choking, as someone in front of us was obviously holding a lit cigarette by his side, which was right at his level. I had not even noticed, being much taller and less sensitive, but it distressed him. At that age he has no axe to grind one way or the other.

The ban is perhaps the best opportunity in recent times to break the smoking habit being passed to the younger generation.

I am no fan of the "Nanny state" scenario, where free choice is denied. I am only pleased that I had decided to give up before someone forced me to.

If for instance, Fredrik was a regular drinker in my local, I would be sorry to see him forced out, but the incident with my son brought home to me the fact that smoking can no longer be forced on those who choose not to.

EW, FWIW, I thought your comments to Seagull, were disproportionate. Anyone with real insight would see that and take the appropriate action.

Nothing against your views, you are as entitled as the next person, but a certain amount of decorum is called for amongst the gentlemen of the forum, unless reasonably provoked. In this case you were not.

Regards

Nic

I don't see why we have to put up with smoking in public places for another year.

It should be banned immediately.

Chris

Cherry Picking

Unlike the arbitrary speeding laws I shall obey the no-smoking laws without question. Whilst I don't fully agree with them and I think this nation has lost its sense of fair play, compromise and liberty, I accept that democracy did prevail on this occasion.

Thus, once the law comes into effect I shall never again light up a fag in a public building even if I think I'll get away with it.

I offer you the smoking suit for the discerning tobacco user.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Toy:
I accept that democracy did prevail on this occasion.

All the staff, and the majority of regulars, smoke in my local. Some salad munching, carrot juice slurping morons in London have deemed that we may not smoke in our pub.

This does not sound like democracy in action to me.

EW

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:

All the staff, and the majority of regulars, smoke in my local. Some salad munching, carrot juice slurping morons in London have deemed that we may not smoke in our pub.

This does not sound like democracy in action to me.

EW

And again, he ignores the fundamental issue at question here (below) for some pseudo Daily Mail a-like rant.

Stephen

quote:

You never, never address the issue of workplace safety - because you have no regard for those who work in the entertainment industry apart from their availability for your convenience.

Again (again!) I ask; why should you have workplace protection and they shouldn't? That's all the argument is about.

Regards

Stephen

I really don't understand why non-smokers are salad munching carrot juice slurping morons? What planet do you come from EW and what era? Are you really Reg Varney?

One of the consequences of the ban on smoking is that it will cause an increase in the non smoking population, which will in time reduce early deaths and so prolong the time that pensions are drawn - yet another blow to the pensions industry - what pension you youngsters thought you might be getting sometime in the future has just taken another hammering.

You better all keep up with the recreational drugs to keep the pension suppply in balance

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Bennett:
And again, he ignores the fundamental issue at question here.

What fundamental issue? Many work places expose employees to risk, who the hell takes a job in a PUB who objects to tobacco smoke? And what happened to the concept of providing a service? Pubs provide a safe venue in which people can choose to poison themselves with alcohol and tobacco. People who work there provide this service. And if they don't like it, they can take a job at the local gym instead, or some other more salubrious establishemnt.

Why should the government ban smoking in places where everyone smokes? Whose safety are they really so worried about? In my local the staff smoke and the punters smoke - moreover, go there TO smoke! Where's the problem? The government should shag off and spend the revenue from all the tobacco on buggering up the education system some more, or a little more NHS bureaucracy, or some new asylum centres for the immigrants to burn down. Or maybe a new Jag for old Taffy Prescott.

I don't read the Daily Mail, but if that's their angle too then I share it.

EW

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
I really don't understand why non-smokers are salad munching carrot juice slurping morons?

It's not the non-smokers who are the morons; it's those who wish to ban smokers from smoking. Smokers don't stop them slurping their carrot juice...

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:
It's not the non-smokers who are the morons; it's those who wish to ban smokers from smoking. Smokers don't stop them slurping their carrot juice...

Smokers can still smoke, this legislation protects the non-smoking majority from the foul products and health hazards of 2nd hand smoke.

Clearly some people are too stupid to understand or accept that. Perhaps in addition to the currently known health problems caused by smoking there are others relating to mental acuity? Or perhaps its just them being selfish?

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
I really don't understand why non-smokers are salad munching carrot juice slurping morons?

It's not the non-smokers who are the morons; it's those who wish to ban smokers from smoking. Smokers don't stop them slurping their carrot juice...

You're exactly the reason why legislation is needed as clearly you care so little for the health of others than you can't be trusted to behave in a responsible manner.

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
I offer you the smoking suit for the discerning tobacco user.

No sign of a headphones socket

Pipe music?

quote:

Originally posted by nicnaim:
Recently however, when part of a packed crowd leaving St. James' Park, my 9 year old told me that he felt very unwell, that his eyes were hurting and that he was choking, as someone in front of us was obviously holding a lit cigarette by his side, which was right at his level. I had not even noticed, being much taller and less sensitive, but it distressed him. At that age he has no axe to grind one way or the other.

The ban is perhaps the best opportunity in recent times to break the smoking habit being passed to the younger generation.

I am no fan of the "Nanny state" scenario, where free choice is denied. I am only pleased that I had decided to give up before someone forced me to.

If for instance, Fredrik was a regular drinker in my local, I would be sorry to see him forced out, but the incident with my son brought home to me the fact that smoking can no longer be forced on those who choose not to.

Nic

I live in France, and it's a bastion of smoker's rights. But,even here, the tide is changing less people smoke than before, and I've even found 100% non smoking restaurants, but they've hardly reached Paris yet.

When I go to England, I love to be able to drink a pint or two without stinking afterwards, or having my eyes sting or my throat hurt from cigarette smoke. I spent my summer holiday of 2004 in Ireland and the pubs are great, it's a pity the beer is dreadful unless you like stout, a real pleasure to be able to see across the bar!

I also don't see why Fred considers himself "forced" out of the pub becuase he can't smoke there too, he can smoke outside or at home.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:
this legislation protects the non-smoking majority from the foul products and health hazards of 2nd hand smoke.

No, there are places where smokers go and places where non-smokers go. If I wish to smoke while I get quietly crapulous, I go the Rose and Crown up the road. If I do not, I go my local Weatherspoon's which has an extensive no-smoking area, and where few people smoke anyway.

Non-smokers are unlikely to find themselves propping the bar up in a working man's club, passively smoking and being all offended and pissed off; they'll be somewhere else, somwhere more salubrious. The idea of plod coming round and making sure no-one's smoking in some seedy back-street spit and sawdust pub in Newcastle - where even the bloody cat smokes, for f*ck's sake! - is just a hoot.

In an office, I accept that smoking should be banned, just as it should be on airliners. Banning smoking in the pub is like some kind of joke; it'd be damn funny if it weren't true.

EW

You get a better class of customer where smoking is banned. Even in the charity shops! Stop that sniggering at the back!

quote:

The idea of plod coming round

It won't be plod. In the brave new police state sans police it will be plain-clothed stazi-esque nanny council officials propping up the end of the bar or seated in a corner with a female stooge intended to look like their mistress, supping alcohol-free pints, and handing out on-the-spot fines as they return from the gents.

Within a few years they won't even need to hand you the fine. They'll use an electronic remote reader to obtain your details from the chip inside your ID card (you'd best have it on you or else...) and a letter will drop through your door:

Dear Mr Chuffer,

You were seen in the Rose and Crown on Queen Street, Salisbury smoking a cigarette between 2110 and 2117 hours on 27th March 2009.

A fixed penalty of £2500 will therefore be debited to your current account, sort code 34-67-87, number 64386645 on 5th April 2009. If there are insufficient funds in your account for the above amount to be debited, a warrant will be issued for your imminent arrest.

I trust there will be no further incidents of smoking in a public place thus obviating more formal action.

I thank you for your cooperation.

Yours sincerely,

The Enforcement Team at Salisbury Council.

It won't be a police issue unless folk start falling out about it. Non-smoking enforcement rests with the local council, and quite righty so IMV, as they also 'deal' with other environmental issues, don't they?

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
.... Stop that sniggering at the back!

Fredrik