Getting ripped files over to my "good rig"...
Posted by: JBGood on 20 September 2009
Greetings everyone,
Forgive this basic question, but a quick review of this forum did not easily clarify my question.
I want to get my growing collection of ripped lossless files from my PC to my 2-channel Naim rig. I don't want to break the bank, but I am interested in maximizing my fidelity.
Wireless streaming up to the task these days? What products/technologies? Sweet spot solution?
Better (or less expensive) to purchase a new fat iPod instead?
I already have my PC/iTunes setup working in a suitable fashion in my study w/ a CA DacMagic DAC. I just want to get all these tunes to my good system.
What the most Naim forum folks doing to achieve this goal?
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
-- JBGood
Forgive this basic question, but a quick review of this forum did not easily clarify my question.
I want to get my growing collection of ripped lossless files from my PC to my 2-channel Naim rig. I don't want to break the bank, but I am interested in maximizing my fidelity.
Wireless streaming up to the task these days? What products/technologies? Sweet spot solution?
Better (or less expensive) to purchase a new fat iPod instead?
I already have my PC/iTunes setup working in a suitable fashion in my study w/ a CA DacMagic DAC. I just want to get all these tunes to my good system.
What the most Naim forum folks doing to achieve this goal?
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
-- JBGood
Posted on: 20 September 2009 by pcstockton
your options are countless.
How about giving us some more information about what you have, what you want, what you can spend etc....
The possible solutions are numerous without knowing a little bit more.
-patrick
How about giving us some more information about what you have, what you want, what you can spend etc....
The possible solutions are numerous without knowing a little bit more.
-patrick
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by JBGood
pcstockton,
Thanks for the reply.
My 2-channel rig (all Naim): CD5x/XS/FC2x/NACA5. Speakers are Totem Arros.
My current iPod is several years old, and does not have much memory. It would need to be replaced if I used it as a server.
Beefy custom built PC (about one year old) with multiple drives, running Windows XP. Originally configured/specd primarily for Photoshop use. As already mentioned using iTunes and Apple Lossless files.
I have Cambridge Audio DacMagic on my desktop system. I could move this over as needed, or purchase a better DAC.
Not sure about my budget at this time. As mentioned, I'm looking for a sweet spot value solution at this time.
-- JBGood
Thanks for the reply.
My 2-channel rig (all Naim): CD5x/XS/FC2x/NACA5. Speakers are Totem Arros.
My current iPod is several years old, and does not have much memory. It would need to be replaced if I used it as a server.
Beefy custom built PC (about one year old) with multiple drives, running Windows XP. Originally configured/specd primarily for Photoshop use. As already mentioned using iTunes and Apple Lossless files.
I have Cambridge Audio DacMagic on my desktop system. I could move this over as needed, or purchase a better DAC.
Not sure about my budget at this time. As mentioned, I'm looking for a sweet spot value solution at this time.
-- JBGood
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by AS332
JBGood ,
One of the cheaper ways to start streaming to your Naim system ( and the way I started ) is to try an Apple Airport Express . This will link to your iTunes on the PC and stream the music to your system directly or place your DAC magic between it and the preamp to see how that improves things .
This will give you a good start for minimal outlay and you will probably recoup close to what you pay for it when you decide streaming is the way forward and upgrade to something else . This is just one idea and I'm sure other alternatives will be suggested for you to try .
I hope this helps ,
Ed
One of the cheaper ways to start streaming to your Naim system ( and the way I started ) is to try an Apple Airport Express . This will link to your iTunes on the PC and stream the music to your system directly or place your DAC magic between it and the preamp to see how that improves things .
This will give you a good start for minimal outlay and you will probably recoup close to what you pay for it when you decide streaming is the way forward and upgrade to something else . This is just one idea and I'm sure other alternatives will be suggested for you to try .
I hope this helps ,
Ed
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by JBGood
Ed,
Thanks very much for the reply and suggestion. I think I am going to focus on streaming my files at this time. I'm going to hop on over to the Apple website to check things out.
Regards,
-- JBGood
Thanks very much for the reply and suggestion. I think I am going to focus on streaming my files at this time. I'm going to hop on over to the Apple website to check things out.
Regards,
-- JBGood
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by likesmusic
JB - an airport express was the first thing I played with; it's a cheap and aggravation free way of getting going with streaming especially if you already use iTunes(though you'll soon tire of going to your pc to play something!). It gets quite a bit better with a Dacmagic, but you will need a mini-to-optical digital Toslink audio cable - there's one in the Airport Express Connection Kit.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by pcstockton
JB,
There are two sides to every coin.
The Airport will not stream hi-res audio. A TC requires firewire. The Uniti requires UPnP etc...
The only way to start specifying products as they apply to your possible method, is to know your budget.
Your options generally speaking are:
- Analog output of PC soundcard to XS
- Digital output of PC soundcard to DAC to XS
- USB/Firewire output to USB/Firewire External DAC (Weiss DAC)
- USB/Firewire output to Converter to External DAC (M-Audio Transit)
- Ethernet output to Streaming/DAC product (Linn DS)
- Wireless output via many methods to Streaming/DAC product (Apple TV, Uniti)
- NAS connected to Hard Disc Player (HDX)
- All in one product (HDX, Uniti)
The above list is far from exhaustive. The options for each are plenty and able to be done on many budgets. Plus you can use more than one of the above in the same system.
What is your ultimate goal, and what is the budget now?
-patrick
There are two sides to every coin.
The Airport will not stream hi-res audio. A TC requires firewire. The Uniti requires UPnP etc...
The only way to start specifying products as they apply to your possible method, is to know your budget.
Your options generally speaking are:
- Analog output of PC soundcard to XS
- Digital output of PC soundcard to DAC to XS
- USB/Firewire output to USB/Firewire External DAC (Weiss DAC)
- USB/Firewire output to Converter to External DAC (M-Audio Transit)
- Ethernet output to Streaming/DAC product (Linn DS)
- Wireless output via many methods to Streaming/DAC product (Apple TV, Uniti)
- NAS connected to Hard Disc Player (HDX)
- All in one product (HDX, Uniti)
The above list is far from exhaustive. The options for each are plenty and able to be done on many budgets. Plus you can use more than one of the above in the same system.
What is your ultimate goal, and what is the budget now?
-patrick
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by JBGood
likemusic,
For around $100, trying out an Airport Express w/ my existing CA DacMagic sounds like a pretty reasonable place to start. My Naim rig is in the room adjacent to my study (where my PC lives), so this would probably work out fine.
I have a family member that installed a Sonos system, but I'm not sure I want to make that kind of investment at this time. Maybe someday, but I am not currently interested in setting up a whole house music system.
I kind of like the idea of trying something simple and finding out with my own ears if it sounds acceptable or not. An Airport Express would be easy to return.
Patrick noted that Airport Express does not stream high res audio. So this means one cannot wirelesssly stream lossless files? Am I understanding this correctly? If this is the case, what is the least expensive system that will allow high res streaming?
Since I am primarily interested in having my entire music library easily accessibly through my Naim system, I am still considering loading up a new iPod and using a transport and good DAC. I could also use the iPod in my car setup. The iPod integration in my recently acquired Audi is fantastic.
Regards,
- JBGood
For around $100, trying out an Airport Express w/ my existing CA DacMagic sounds like a pretty reasonable place to start. My Naim rig is in the room adjacent to my study (where my PC lives), so this would probably work out fine.
I have a family member that installed a Sonos system, but I'm not sure I want to make that kind of investment at this time. Maybe someday, but I am not currently interested in setting up a whole house music system.
I kind of like the idea of trying something simple and finding out with my own ears if it sounds acceptable or not. An Airport Express would be easy to return.
Patrick noted that Airport Express does not stream high res audio. So this means one cannot wirelesssly stream lossless files? Am I understanding this correctly? If this is the case, what is the least expensive system that will allow high res streaming?
Since I am primarily interested in having my entire music library easily accessibly through my Naim system, I am still considering loading up a new iPod and using a transport and good DAC. I could also use the iPod in my car setup. The iPod integration in my recently acquired Audi is fantastic.
Regards,
- JBGood
quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
JB - an airport express was the first thing I played with; it's a cheap and aggravation free way of getting going with streaming especially if you already use iTunes(though you'll soon tire of going to your pc to play something!). It gets quite a bit better with a Dacmagic, but you will need a mini-to-optical digital Toslink audio cable - there's one in the Airport Express Connection Kit.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by likesmusic
JB - like you I wanted to try hi-res files, and once I'd used the Airport Express to see how pleasant streaming was, I bought a Logitech Squeezebox Duet (about £250). This has an excellent remote control which allows you to browse and play your albums, and copes with hi-res files - up to 24bit/48khz. It uses Sox to downsample 24/96 stuff. There's a new Squeezebox touch on the way - receiver and controller all in one - that will do 24/96. The control software - Squeezecenter - is good - you can download it free anyway for a play. I'm quite happy with what I've got, especially for the money. If the NAIM DAC works out I can sell my Dacmagic without great loss. But in fairness, now that the iTouch is cheaper, and if I understand things right the NAIM DAC has the ability to use an iTouch as a streamer, it might be better for you to look to getting an iTouch for your remote control and stick with iTunes + Airport Express. In which case, to play with hi-res stuff, you could use foobar with an ASIO driver. Just depends how much cash and brain-power (and hi-res files!) you've got to play with, and whether a NAIM DAC is a future aspiration for you.
Oh, and another option would be to get a nice iPOD and a Wadia iTransport and a DAC. No computers!
Oh, and another option would be to get a nice iPOD and a Wadia iTransport and a DAC. No computers!
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by JBGood
likesmusic,
Do you also have a Naim CDP? I'm wondering how my CD5x would compare with Squeezebox/DacMagic?
Can anybody comment here?
Regards,
-JBgood
Do you also have a Naim CDP? I'm wondering how my CD5x would compare with Squeezebox/DacMagic?
Can anybody comment here?
Regards,
-JBgood
quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
JB - like you I wanted to try hi-res files, and once I'd used the Airport Express to see how pleasant streaming was, I bought a Logitech Squeezebox Duet (about £250). This has an excellent remote control which allows you to browse and play your albums, and copes with hi-res files - up to 24bit/48khz. It uses Sox to downsample 24/96 stuff. There's a new Squeezebox touch on the way - receiver and controller all in one - that will do 24/96. The control software - Squeezecenter - is good - you can download it free anyway for a play. I'm quite happy with what I've got, especially for the money. If the NAIM DAC works out I can sell my Dacmagic without great loss. But in fairness, now that the iTouch is cheaper, and if I understand things right the NAIM DAC has the ability to use an iTouch as a streamer, it might be better for you to look to getting an iTouch for your remote control and stick with iTunes + Airport Express. In which case, to play with hi-res stuff, you could use foobar with an ASIO driver. Just depends how much cash and brain-power (and hi-res files!) you've got to play with, and whether a NAIM DAC is a future aspiration for you.
Oh, and another option would be to get a nice iPOD and a Wadia iTransport and a DAC. No computers!
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by pcstockton
No comparison.
What is your budget!?!?!?!?!
You left out that you already own a DAC.
It is tough to help without seeing the whole picture.
If you really want some guidance, let us know your overall budget and which option from my list above is most attractive for you. There are high and low quality (and budget) options for each of the above.
What is your budget!?!?!?!?!
You left out that you already own a DAC.
It is tough to help without seeing the whole picture.
If you really want some guidance, let us know your overall budget and which option from my list above is most attractive for you. There are high and low quality (and budget) options for each of the above.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
Oh, and another option would be to get a nice iPOD and a Wadia iTransport and a DAC. No computers!
How do you get the files on the iPod without a computer?
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by likesmusic
JB - nope, don't have a NAIM CDP, so I can't help you with that comparison. But one easy thing for you to do would be to get hold of another cd player, perhaps even a crummy one or a dvd player - anything with a digital out. Put a cd in that and play it through the dacmagic. Compare with your NAIM stuff - that will give you a good idea of how good the DACMAGIC is for you. Nothing stopping you dowloading a player like foobar and ASIO drivers free and playing stuff out of the USB port of your pc into the Dacmagic either. The hassle I found with using a foobar-type solution was uncertainty about bit perfect playback; with the Squeezebox this is assured as long as you set it up so to do.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by pcstockton
JB,
Dont bother with a Squeeze Box. There are other ways to achieve this and maintain FULL 24/96 capability. Why only go halfway there? I cant see a good reason to live with Logitech performing a downsampling process to your hi-res files.
-p
Dont bother with a Squeeze Box. There are other ways to achieve this and maintain FULL 24/96 capability. Why only go halfway there? I cant see a good reason to live with Logitech performing a downsampling process to your hi-res files.
-p
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
The hassle I found with using a foobar-type solution was uncertainty about bit perfect playback; with the Squeezebox this is assured as long as you set it up so to do.
What??? Do you mean the other way around? I would wonder about the SB being bit transparent when it is down/up sampling things prior to digital output.
Foobar is an awesome bit perfect player, ASIO or not.
-p
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by likesmusic
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:
How do you get the files on the iPod without a computer?
I think you know what I mean.
But in any case ... you don't need a computer on to playback, or a wireless hub.
I mentioned the iTransport option because JB said he liked the iPod interface in his car; an iTransport solution would give him the opportunity to listen in his car happily, get home, dock his iPod and keep listening .. or vice-versa. All without a computer on. With a single interface to learn. He might like that.
P.S. Onkyo have announced a digital iPod dock too - about half the price of the wadia.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by likesmusic
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:
What??? Do you mean the other way around? I would wonder about the SB being bit transparent when it is down/up sampling things prior to digital output.
Foobar is an awesome bit perfect player, ASIO or not.
-p
I'm sure foobar is fine. Are you saying that a SB upsamples or downsamples 16/44 FLAC or WAV? Can't see how foobar gets you wireless, or a nice in your hand interface like the Duet. Another reason I didn't really pursue foobar was the whole USB/jitter thing. But since it is free, the O/P can decide for himself for no cost at all!
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by pcstockton
Likes and JB,
Yes he might, and you think, hence me asking him for more info.
As I mentioned before the options are endless.
Budget please.
Yes he might, and you think, hence me asking him for more info.
As I mentioned before the options are endless.
Budget please.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by Eloise
quote:Originally posted by JBGood:
Patrick noted that Airport Express does not stream high res audio. So this means one cannot wirelesssly stream lossless files? Am I understanding this correctly? If this is the case, what is the least expensive system that will allow high res streaming?
Since I am primarily interested in having my entire music library easily accessibly through my Naim system, I am still considering loading up a new iPod and using a transport and good DAC. I could also use the iPod in my car setup. The iPod integration in my recently acquired Audi is fantastic.
Regards,
- JBGood
I didn't see this addressed before but of so I appologise.
By High Resolution audio, Patrick was refering to music at higher than 16/44.1 (CD Quality) rather than full lossless audio which the Airport Express handles perfectly - in fact all audio is converted to Apple Lossless format before streaming. I would add weight to using the AirPort Express (with your existing DAC) as a good first step. If you also invested in an iPod Touch this would give you an excellent control mechanism via the Apple "Remote" Application (Free download) and will also allow you to copy some of your music to the iPod to the car. IIRC you'll be looking at around £60 for an AirPort express and £160 for the iPod touch - similar cost to the Logitech Duet with (to my mind anyway) a much better remote control.
Eloise
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by likesmusic
And I wouldn't get too hung-up about hi-res files anyway. Most of my hi-res material I already own as SACDs and I have a decent SACD player, so although I went the Logitech route partly to play hi-res stuff, I haven't in practice done much. You try downloading say the Linn St Mathew Passion and you'll find out why! So, especially now that the iTouch has got cheaper and the Logitech has got more expensive I'm not sure I would go the Duet route again, though I believe it is the case that the Squeezebox has a better jitter performance than an Airport Express. There are issues with ripping and tagging too - I've used FLAC which apple doesn't like - but if you've been using iTunes in any case (I hadn't) it's almost a cheap-as-chips no-brainer to get an Airport Express and iTouch and stick it through your Dacmagic. I'm kinda tempted myself! But I have my eye on a NAIM DAC so will wait and see what might suit it.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by likesmusic:
And I wouldn't get too hung-up about hi-res files anyway.
I would.
Posted on: 21 September 2009 by garyi
I suggest that you go with the express for now, its hceap and you can sell for what you bought for,
When Patric mentions hi res he means 24/96 files, its entirely possible that like me you dont have any of these files.
For sure if you like plinky plonk piano there is plenty of hi res music out there.
Still for an outlay of 100 bucks of which you get most back when you sell it on, you can take the express route and upgrade when the desire for hires take you.
After a while if you find the express is doing it for you, purchase an ipod touch this will work as a remote control for you, displaying all your albums from itunes with art work and everything, from the ipod you can set up playlists and all sorts.
If you likes the apple route full stop the final stop would be a mac mini to replace the express, this does do hi res.
When Patric mentions hi res he means 24/96 files, its entirely possible that like me you dont have any of these files.
For sure if you like plinky plonk piano there is plenty of hi res music out there.
Still for an outlay of 100 bucks of which you get most back when you sell it on, you can take the express route and upgrade when the desire for hires take you.
After a while if you find the express is doing it for you, purchase an ipod touch this will work as a remote control for you, displaying all your albums from itunes with art work and everything, from the ipod you can set up playlists and all sorts.
If you likes the apple route full stop the final stop would be a mac mini to replace the express, this does do hi res.
Posted on: 22 September 2009 by likesmusic
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:
I would.
The majority of hi-res audio is already available on SACD. Much SACD material is not available as a download. If, like me, you like the (typically classical) music enough to already have the SACDs and an SACD player then the available downloadable hi-res material adds very little value to your music collection, unless you want to duplicate stuff you already have. And if you haven't got an SACD player, then it is arguable that buying one might you a better route to hi-res than downloads in the present state of the game. So, I don't really think that streaming hi-res music is a deal breaker. If it is, then I suppose a Linn DS of some sort or the fancier Logitech products are probably the way to go.
Posted on: 22 September 2009 by JBGood
Thanks to everyone for your feedback and suggestions. Much appreciated.
Given that I already own a DAC, the Airport Express is inexpensive, and I already have reason to upgrade my old iPod, the Express/itouch touch combination seems like a reasonable thing to try. This solution would also allow me to have all my favorite music in the car as well.
Happy listening...
-- JBGood
Given that I already own a DAC, the Airport Express is inexpensive, and I already have reason to upgrade my old iPod, the Express/itouch touch combination seems like a reasonable thing to try. This solution would also allow me to have all my favorite music in the car as well.
Happy listening...
-- JBGood
Posted on: 23 September 2009 by David Quigley
Alternative solution is buy the now discounted apple TV. For just over two hundred bucks you get a good dedicated platform. Buy the cheapest itouch and use that as a remote control for it and you are set (assuming you have a wifi router). Apple TV has optical out so quality is good.
Posted on: 23 September 2009 by garyi
Apple tv is not discontinued they just stopped the 40gig version*
*That being said they want to put up or shut up with it now.
*That being said they want to put up or shut up with it now.