New BMW 5 series

You're losing touch Mike. Ugly is the new beautiful. Exteriors by Airfix and interiors by Ikea are the new black dontchaknow.

I was following a car in Bath last week. The bottoms of the doors were all bashed in, it was covered in gouges and the boot wasn't shut properly. Then I realised it was an E60 (new 5). How stupid of me to have confused innovative and leading edge design with vandalism.

Harry

If your talking about the new 545I. Saw one 2 days ago.. I thought the exterior was pretty nice..
I do have toagree on some of the new lines are crap....

haven't seen one in real life yet, but i've just had a look over it on the bmw website and ughhhh. What has happened? I agree it is an evolution of the shape, but it has evolved into looking like a japanese car, the distinctive bmw features seem to be being smoothed out and almost lost.

The interior is a big step down, I used to have a 3 series and really liked how everything in the centre was angled towards the driver, now just plain flat.

When the time comes to change my '97 528 I'll either be looking for a late model fully loaded E39 or moving on to Audi or MB. I never thought I'd see the day when the prospect of laying my hands on the latest 5 made me physically sick.

Harry

Same with the new 5. I've driven two and they are superior to the old model in dynamics and refinement - no question. But the driving environment is poor and not driver focused. The quality of materials is awful and the air con is a step down. Taking all this and the external appearance into consideration it's a no brainer for me not to go there.

What you say about prices for the old 7 is interesting. I wonder if my old 5 will depreciate less quickly? Hardly something worth staying awake nights over, but nice if it happens.

Harry

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the Z4 is marginally less pig-ugly than the Z3

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Drivel. The Z3 was never pig ugly.

The Z3 looks ok but is basically a crap car.

The Z4 looks brilliant from some angles and crap from others but is fundamentally a great car.

Chris

Thankfully this discussion hasn't reached the X-3 yet. That's one IS ugly!

JohanR

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and whatever are they going to do to the 3 series in a few years? Sob, sob...

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IMO they already did it - I've got a 95 328i which has nice clean distinctively BMW lines. Then they brought in the present 3 series in 99? - attached loads of brightwork and tinsel, put cheat lines in the side panels and generally screwed it up. Result, the current model now looks more dated than its predecessor

David

I just noticed thats my 1000th post - lucky it was on such a non controversial subject.

Agree David. The E36 was just about right in all respects. Radical but not shocking evolution from the previous E30 with spot on proportions. It just looks "right" somehow. But the build quality was pants. I had two and they were not well assembeled - but I didn't care.

The E46 present shape 3 is over styled and looks top heavy. Interior ergonomics compared to your car are poor but the build quality is amazing - or at least it was in the one I had and the many I dove. The coupe works, particularly the sport models. They look correctly proportioned and a bit other wordly.

Who knows what they'll do to mess up the 3? Spy shots don't look too bad but if the 7, 5 and Z4 are anything to go by, we're in for more gnashing of teeth. X3 doesn't look too promising, but I'll wait until I see one up close. I'll have the sick bucket ready though.

Harry

Hmmmmn

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the saying goes, however for my eyes, and it would appear those of a great many others, going by internet chat forums, motoring magazines and such, the majority of views are that it is Fugly. Both inside and out.

Heh, having recently driven one, I discussed my views in a thread 'Bangles bungles', and now I see similar comment here.

True, they do 'perform' if one is after a car with a sporting bent, and a dash of luxury re electronic gadgetry etc, however, there are better 'luxury' choices out there if NVH and ride quality etc are more ones definition of luxury IMHO, and of course much more sporting and involving drives as well, admitedly not many though with the loaded gadgets a-la-BMW.

The trouble is, when one is being asked to shell out so much for it, you at least want to like the thing re it's looks. IMV it doesn't matter a tuppence worth if it has all the gung-ho technology, if you don't like the look of the thing - one will never grow to love and cherish it, which IMHO makes it a waste of money.

According to my BMW fan/mate, his dealer has told him that the 7 is not selling at all well here, and is really hurting BMW. A new 735i retails for around AUS $175,000, and after only 12 months, is worth approx AUS $100,000 i.e. $75k depreciation in 1 yr, as no one wants them.

Horrendous, and quite sad really.

Perhaps sometime in the not too distant future, we may see BMW running into a substantial loss making situation, and becomming ripe for a takeover.

Stranger things have happened in the automotive world.

Best

John...

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary

I suspect that BMW, if they survive intact in the next 3-5 years will embrace the idea of pace with grace and sell it as a new concept, thereby going full circle. Or maybe that's just wistful thinking.

Harry

I don't agree with John's comments sorry. BMWs have consistently been oriented towards driving enjoyment, I have had three BMWs and this time chose a new Mercerdes E Class. The Mercedes does not come close to ther same level of cornering and handling competence of the BMW, although I accept the ride is a bit more refined. BMW engines are in anotehr league when it comes to smoothness and linear delivery IMHO. So when it comes to chaning the Mercedes in 2.5 years time I am considering a new 530. The big question is whether I completely dump any motoring/karting creditials I may have and go for the diesel.

Oh, and I really like the styling. But I don't like the way teh I dive monitor stucks out of the centre of the dashboard. Brian O'Reilly can you please get rid of that please

Consider it done, Dev, consider it done.

Brian OReilly

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I don't agree with John's comments sorry. BMWs have consistently been oriented towards driving enjoyment, I have had three BMWs and this time chose a new Mercerdes E Class. The Mercedes does not come close to ther same level of cornering and handling competence of the BMW, although I accept the ride is a bit more refined. BMW engines are in anotehr league when it comes to smoothness and linear delivery IMHO. So when it comes to chaning the Mercedes in 2.5 years time I am considering a new 530. The big question is whether I completely dump any motoring/karting creditials I may have and go for the diesel.

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Heh, glad someone disagrees with me as I really like BMW's and would hate to see things go really sour for them. Also, I like hearing others opinions, being a car 'nut' and am always open to other ideas and views.

I've driven most of the new/current BMW range, with the notable exception of the M3. Unfortunately my recent experience of Benz has been limited to a few current C Class machines - fours and sixes, but nothing much higher up the line.

Putting a C180 back to back with a 318i, I would concur with your views re handling and cornering, v's ride. The BMW had a more 'tied down' feel to it, with an exceptionally neutral balance re understeer/oversteer etc, with v/quick turn in, and great steering feel, less body 'float' and roll etc. Handling and general dynamics on a performance orientation were definitely superior to the Benz.

Mind you, the Benz wasn't any slower per se, when you're talking pushing it through a bend to the point of breaking away the tail, or pushing the front out in an understeer 'washout', more that it lacked the sense of precise control and feedback of the BMW.

Conversely, the Benz had a wonderful suppleness in the ride, that the BMW couldn't match, offering a serenity and smoothness of ride over bumpy, broken, undulating tarmac, where the Bimmer was all 'fidgeting' about, dropping it's shoulders etc. Road noise also was notably quieter in the Benz. So yes, the BMW is the more sporting, and has better handling and cornering dynamics, but with some tradeoffs to ride smoothness etc.

Take ones pick I guess - I wouldn't like to say one is better than the other, merely a different set of virtues and vices.

I agree re the engines, with the V6 Merc, v's the inline 6 of the BMW. Inline sixes have better balance than a V6, and despite the use of a balance shaft, the V6 in the Merc is not as smooth in running characteristics, or sound, as the BMW sixes.

IMHO, BMW are one of the great engine builders in the motoring world, along with Honda and Alfa, - another couple of notable examples.

On the other hand, there was seemingly little in it re the fours - Merc v's BMW re smoothness, free - revving etc in the examples I've driven. Sixes though are another matter, and I can't comment on the V8s as I haven't driven a late model Benz V8.

If you like the look of the new 5 series, you could learn to love it, as it's a very fine drive, however, looking at the exterior and interior styling of an current E Class v's the new 5, the 5 is so much lower rent in plastics quality, let alone design, it's not funny IMHO. Whilst more 'austere' the interior of a Golf whips a new 5 for materials quality of the interior hands down.

Still, I can appreciate that we all see things differently and some will no doubt love it.

Me, apart from when I get the opportunity to risk life, limb, and licence putting high performance motor vehicles through their not inconsiderable paces, I'd go with the elegance, and refinement re ride etc of the Benz, especially on our speed camera infested roads, with zero tolerance into the bargain. These days, a high performance car here is wasted, unless on a track, or somewhere way out the back of beyond.

As a footnote, having had three BMW's, are you disappointed overall in the Benz?

Just curious, as I like both brands pretty much equally, albeit for different reasons.

Best

John...

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary

MichaelC,
perhaps some of these links help

this one
is fairly good, not much ranting and stuff...a few threads of recent problems and a home page with good trackability of events etc.

This one
on the other hand has a few really good posts but hidden in a pile of banter.