New Naim gear at the Bristol show

Posted by: ian123running on 23 February 2001

There were TWO new things on show from Naim:

A new speaker - not sure of the name but it looks like a small NBL. A sort of upgrade / replacement of the Credo - a figure of around 2000 pounds was mentioned. This was on the end of a CDS11, 52, 135 setup.

A Naim Audio equipment support! It had three legs with wooden 'triangular' shelves (with cutouts), on which sat glass shelves on some sort of steel ball / washer arrangement. It seemed that different heights of units could be added in a modular way (ie with different heights of spacer).

They were using these shelves in all three of their rooms.

For the record as far as I can remember the three systems were

CD5, Flatcap2, 112, 150, Intro
CDS11, XPS, 52, Supercap, 135s, new speakers
Full blown active DBL system

Oh, plus a CD5, nait / headline system for trying CDs.

Ian

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by bob atherton

oops

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Tim Oldridge

I must just say the most consistantly enjoyable system I heard on Saturday was Andy's - CDS1/52/135s/DBLs on Mana.

Sure it didn't do that incredible thing the 500 does, and didn't show the detail and control you hear with a high end active, but I wasn't complaining. There was certainly no sign that the 135s were running out of steam with the DBLs despite Andy's best efforts.

"Hopefully, your ears have recovered from Sepultura"

What? Pardon? ;-) As a matter of fact I really enjoyed the track you chose (off a CD called "Roots"?).

How's that for a new slogan for Naim: "DBLs make even the most godawful heavy metal listenable"

Timo

[This message was edited by Tim Oldridge on MONDAY 26 February 2001 at 14:40.]

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Tony L

quote:
Of the stand? Ok, you can't please everybody. The un-confirmed price strikes me as a little expensive; you need plenty of real-estate to site them, coz they're the 'wide-body' models.

The stands all well and good in theory (all be at a price), but until Mick Parry turns up how the hell are we supposed to know whether it looks ok?

Tony.

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Andrew Randle

Bob,

How was the African Soul music?

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by ken c

i very much welcome the new naim equipment racks. the pricing is such that there is plenty of room for other players in this field, such as QS, Isoblue, Hutter, Mana, Ash, etc etc. for me the most important benefit of naim racks is that i can now safely assume that performance on these racks is the benchmark or baseline -- and represents how naim equipment is "supposed" to sound, according to naim themselves.

i was initially very excited abou the vivo when i heard it was to be an SBL replacement. i love the sbl's, but they induce a lot of paranioa when you have to move them for whatever reason. i was going to go for nbl's but there are far too big and would rather dominate our lounge. and don't suggest i move house!! well it turns out they are a replacement for credo's, so i will keep my sbl's for a while yet...

many thanks to those who posted the very nice photos for those of us who were at the show in spirit, but not in flesh...

enjoy...

ken (have shortened my surname)

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by MarkEJ

...are IMHO much more of an important step for Naim Audio than for any potential buyers. I think the major point is that at long last Naim can do demonstrations without implying any alliances or endorsements. The design of the stands is such that musical performance should be at least relatable to other stands, and the pricing at least implies that they are not seen as being an integral part of the design in the same way as A5, for example.

In concept, I think they are very clever and probably very versatile, and some thorough thinking has obviously been applied, although personally I find the look a bit flash.

The sound is very difficult to judge, as any perceived problems could easily have been attributable to lack of warmup -- all the Naim rooms sounded a lot better on Sunday, but the 135/"Vivo" room seemed to have moved a lot further than the other two in the same time, in spite of this being arguably the most difficult room in acoustic terms. Lots of fun, so the stands obviously work.

Thanks to all at Naim Audio for their hospitality, humour and professionalism. It's easy to forget that for them, a show is not a weekend off, and tough on both stamina and vocal chords!

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Mick P

Chaps

I managed to get myself and Mrs Mick up to the show yesterday with the prime intention at looking at every stand available on the market.

Most were dissappointing and to my mind, there are really only 4 contenders.

Mana
Hutter
Naim
Ash Design

I have six boxes plus a turntable so I have priced everything accordingly.

Mana....most people who use it, rate it. Pity about their bombastic attitude but things do seem to be getting better recently.

It appears that you need to get youself up into phase 4 at least to obtain optimal effects and this aint cheap. It looks bloody ugly (subjective I admit) but even most of its ardent admirers confess to wishing it did look better. Also it can go out of tune so it does have its flaws.

A bonus is that it is upgradable but the more layers there are, the more ugly it becomes.

For me Mana in the lounge is a no go.....the wife would go ballistic, but I could consider it for the dinning room system where appearance is less of an issue.

Overall its just too bloody ugly.

Hutter....not bad on price if you import direct.
It has good build quality, looks good and once it has been set up, needs no further maintenance to keep it sounding at its best.

I heard it yesterday at Bob Athertons house and its good (thanks Bob for the meal etc...much appreciated). This product is a very serious contender. Mrs Mick approved.

Naim....visually bloody brilliant. The build quality is second to none.......it radiates sheer class and Mrs Mick really liked it. On appearance this stand is streets ahead of the competition.

I heard it on 3 systems at the show and they all sounded good. Problem being, was the good sound due to the stands, the equipment or the speakers.

The cost is high but all good things cost lolly.

For my system I would use two stands 3 high side by side at a cost of £2,200.00.

Is it worth it ? If if sounds better than Hutter, I for one will pay the price, after and only after I have upgraded to my maximum standard. In my case I would rather purchase a 52 and then a CDS2 before spending £2,200 on a stand. Long term it is a serious contender but I will wait for someone else to buy it to see what they think about it.

Its expensive but the quality is just so seductive.

Ash Design.......Looks good, I know 3 guys who use it and all 3 rate it. The price is cheap at around £500 but is it as good as Hutter...big question mark.

For me its either Hutter or Naim.

If Paul Stephensen is considering selling his Hutter to make way for his Naim, here is one low paid public servant ready to take it off his hands if the colour and price is right.

Regards

Mick

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Arye_Gur

I think many of you are going too easy with naim.
Maybe if more members will say loud and clear that they think that these racks are TOO expensive, it will be a reflaction of the truth.

Naim are very nice and experts in tha stereo area - but they are not a kind of GOD that members have to say morning and evening Amen about all they do.

THESE STANDS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE !!!

As customers of Naim, they at the least can tell us why.

Arye

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Tony L

quote:
Naim....visually bloody brilliant.

Thanks Mick, now we know.

Tony.

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Andy S

quote:
I must just say the most consistantly enjoyable system I heard on Saturday was Andy's - CDS1/52/135s/DBLs on Mana.

Thanks - proof that DBLs do work passively with 135s .

The track was Roots, off the album Roots, by Sepultura. If you like loud 'n' heavy music and you don't have this CD - go and buy it today (great mix of metal/Brazilian rhythms and good sound quality!).

I actually had it with me at the forum session but wasn't quick enough to whip it out...

Andy

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Arye_Gur

5 tires should cost 1700 pounds.
How much is the cost of 5 tires of QS ?

Arye

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Jonathan Gorse

Thoroughly enjoyed the show yet again this year. Nice to catch up with old faces and meet new ones too - hello 'other Jonathan'.

Special thanks to Naim for their hostitality after the show and for letting me play Procol Harum "man with a mission" on the DBL's - they were sounding fabulous as ever. Happy to copy this track for you Rico!

Wasn't so impressed by the 5 series and Intro's this time around but given I'd heard them sounding much better at London I suspect this was either a room or set-up issue.

Also sounding good were DNM and Dynaudio. Michell's room always sounds beautiful but I felt this year that the big Pro-ac's were a little soft compared to the 2.5's and 3.5's they usually use.

Also thanks to Bob Atherton for organising Tantric Jazz and a fun night after the show even if after 3 hrs of excellently played music I did want to echo the cheese shop sketch from Monty Python and shout "shut that bloody bazookie up!!"

Happily I resisted the urge to purchase a VPI16.5 cleaning machine for yet another show and found a far cheaper (£40) mechanical wet cleaner which I am ordering. Will report back.

Jonathan

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Mick P

Arie

One does not compare say a Rolls Royce with a Skoda. both get you from A to B but the quality of the journey is different.

If you think it is expensive, buy something else but to some one else, the price is worth the extra quality. Its all about what is important to you as a person.

Regards

Mick

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Nigel Cavendish

quote:
well, if they allow the naim gear to really sing,

Yes, but do they? I don't think anyone so far has said that these stands make any difference, and in the context of a hi-fi show that is not surprising. Nor do I think that naim has made any claims either, unless I have missed something?

If they are as good as (insert name of your favourite stand) then they seem wildly overpriced.

cheers

Nigel

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Hammerhead

..about the new AV stuff on Saturday. The thought occured to me when I was coming into work this morning about the forthcoming 5.1 AV amp and specifically about cables. Will Naim be making a new cable for the AV stuff? I can't imagine the WAF factor of having lengths of NAC A5 speaker cable being tacked to rear walls. It's a bit too thick to hide in the corners as well! Will there also be a new range of satellite speakers??

Sorry I couldn't stay longer and meet more of the forum visitors - had to rush off as I was attending a Skittles competition that evening (So Rock'n'Roll darling ) over in Portishead. Very popular pastime in that area of the world apparently.

Catch up with you laters.

Steve

I want DBL's, I want DBL's, I want DBL's, (and a trio of 500's.) Please.

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Arye_Gur

Mick,

I don't think that QS vs Naim is like a Skoda vs RR.

Arye

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by MarkEJ

quote:
Martin M and I came up with "The Naim Edsel" as a possible marketing/name suggestion for the stands.

Oh very very good

Especially given that the original Edsel was developed "in stealth" (sic) with showroom models covered by sheets until launch day...

And... Bob didn't actually do the cooking himself Sunday night, (big credit to Janet, his wife, here) but he did pour the wine -- although not without a small bottle/glass interface problem at one stage.

I wasn't quick enough to do the shim gag.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Martin M

Johnathon,

the Edsel name is sticking!!!! The good ole Naim stand and its flaired fenders...

What next the Linn Chevette, the Mana Marina or the Hutter Thunderbird?

The DBL system really rocked on the Naim stands, therefore can be assumed to be a quality item. But I'd guess it would rock on Mana, on Hutter or anything else within reason.

[This message was edited by Martin M on MONDAY 26 February 2001 at 17:02.]

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Rico

quote:
Procol Harum "man with a mission" on the DBL's - they were sounding fabulous as ever. Happy to copy this track for you Rico!

Jon

thanks awfully for the offer; I won't be requiring a copy of the particular offender.

Whilst I would be pleased to gain exposure to some of Procol Harum's finer moments, I am convinced that the track in question could not have been representative of such work (comments to this effect were uttered by others in attendance)... the greater resolution of The Big One (Naim, have you thought of registering that one?) served to further underscore this impression. Glad you enjoyed it though!

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Nic Peeling

I saw the stands up in the active DBL room and thought "really nice", when I heard the price I thought "bit steep, but in the context of high-end Naim gear they will probably sell at that price". For me the real wow-factor was when I saw the 5 series on the black stand. It looked totally fantastic and Sue positively drooled. On the stands the whole styling of the 5 series made total sense. Bang and Olufsen eat your heart out! However in the context of the 5 series the stand's price could be a problem. My guess is that the the 5 series components being £800 - £1000-ish each will make the average customer think that another £800 - 1000 for the stands is OK but not a lot more - could be a problem I think.

Nic P

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Andrew Randle

Arye,

You need to hear the effect of the stands before deciding they're too expensive. Wouldn't be so expensive if they made your kit sound like the "full monty".

However, I won't be buying them because:

1) I've just bought some Audiotechs
2) Most impotantly, they're too big for me
3) The styling is all "spindly with knobs on" - not for me

Other than that, they will suite many people with large rooms and into "spindly designs with knobs on". In the right context, they look good.

Likely to be a good sounding design too.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by ken c

arie, the rumoured prices of the rack are such that the field is wide open -- you can now (in theory) compare the naim stands with any other stand you have on your short list and decide, FOR YOURSELF, whether the naim is worth the extra.

i am sticking with my projekt/isoblue (when it comes) -- but i am happy i can now walk in to my dealers and hear the "benchmark sound" according to naim. doesn't mean i have to buy it. i cant afford it right now -- in the same way i can't afford a 500 or DBL. but i dont have to organise mass action againt naim because of this... i am keen, like you, to read about the philosophy behind the design... the price is an academic issue right now...

i actually thought you had decided you were very happy with Mana SoundFrame? i am hoping to try this out too at some point.

i trust your system is in full song and you are enjoying it. feel sorry for me, my system wont be back till about 10 days time...

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Peter Stockwell

I thought the ash was expensive. .. mine cost me over £500, a direct import from ash themselves. I like mine, it was better than I had before and my wife thinks it's good looking.

OTOH, roy Gregory of HiFi+ pointed out how great a titanium stand at 600GBP a shelf (+/-) made everything perform to it's true potential ... maybe Linn got it wrong, it's the stand that's the most importnat piece of gear

Peter

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by Nic Peeling

Did anyone else hear, or has previously heard, the Nordost demo of all their inteconnects from £60 (black Knight) to £2000 (Valhalla). The Danish demoer was very slick, but I was amazed ny two things:

Firstly, that the differences between the cables were so extreme, and were to my ears clearly improvements each time (like adding power supplies - the changes seemed better in every respect). Is Naim missing a trick by not focusing more on cables? which leads on to my second point:

The sound quality coaxed out of a pretty modest Primare system was to my ears one of the best sounds per £ at the show. Even when playing far louder than I like it always sounded engaging. This made me think that this might be more than just a cleverly arranged demo.

I was so impressed that I put my hands in my pocket to the tune of £250 to replace the Blue Heaven interconnect I use between my Theta DAC and my 52 (which I bought when I preferred it to a Chord Cobra 2) with a Red Dawn. I will report on the effect when the Red Dawn has burnt in. Have I been conned by a slick demo? Any comments?

Nic P

Posted on: 26 February 2001 by ken c

i am waiting for naim to have their turn at saying things like:

"a 112/150 on the new naim racks sounds better than a 52/500 on any other rack... "

ha ha ha ha...

enjoy...

ken