USB vs iPod Touch through the DAC

Do you mean you have compared the sound on a Naim (Uniti or ?) from an ipod using the designated ipod cord versus the ipod into the USB?

I thought that Naim doesn't recommend using the ipod into the USB. I also wonder which DAC you are using in that situation if not both??

Please fill me in. I was not impressed with the ipod cord on the uniti, so I didn't even buy one. I'll go with a ipod raw data extractor into the uniti if I want the ipod to be my source.

I haven't run an iPod classic through my DAC so I can't compare it to the Touch but I can say that the Touch doesn't compare to USB.

The iPod Touch through the Ndac sounds very ordinary, not really good enough for serious listening.

The usb stick on the other hand is extremely good, up there with the best digital sources I have heard. It's a shame the controls are so rudimentary and in most cases, haphazard.

really??????????????? really? That big of a difference?

You were playing the EXACT same files??

Ill have my own go during my home demo a week from this saturday. But i am guessing there is ALOT of hyperbole going around the forum these days.

Alot of usbs better than others, Ipod touches killing classics, wav destroying flacs, and all too much Amarra and Pure Vinyl (how bad does iTunes f up the music????).

I will judge myself and would be surprised if these differences are close to meaningful, if existent at all. Im sure ill report something or other.

Of course the beef will be that I only run $10K worth of kit (new), and a "much more resolving system" is needed to hear what others are making up and pulling out of thin air

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really??????????????? really? That big of a difference?

Oh yes.

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I will judge myself and would be surprised if these differences are close to meaningful, if existent at all. Im sure ill report something or other.

Look forward to that! My system is down the bottom end of the Naim hierarchy, but the differences between a USB stck and an iTouch into a DAC are still very clear.

I don't fully understand why there are these differences, but my lack of understanding doesn't make them the difference any less real.

Can I just try to clarify something for non-experts such as myself?
When you play music from an iPod, etc, are you feeding the signal that would normally go to the headphones into the Uniti instead, or are you somehow reading the music file in its original digital form, which is what I understand the Naim iPod cable allows you to do? If the former, then I can completely understand the difference in sound quality, but if the latter, I can't understand it at all.

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Originally posted by banjer1:
Do you mean you have compared the sound on a Naim (Uniti or ?) from an ipod using the designated ipod cord versus the ipod into the USB?

I thought that Naim doesn't recommend using the ipod into the USB. I also wonder which DAC you are using in that situation if not both??

Please fill me in. I was not impressed with the ipod cord on the uniti, so I didn't even buy one. I'll go with a ipod raw data extractor into the uniti if I want the ipod to be my source.

Sorry if not clear : it was the Naim DAC, using an iPod Classic with the iPod cable plugged into the front USB socket.

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Originally posted by pcstockton:
really??????????????? really? That big of a difference?

You were playing the EXACT same files??

Yes, ripped using Exact Audio Copy

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Originally posted by Steve Cox:
Can I just try to clarify something for non-experts such as myself?
When you play music from an iPod, etc, are you feeding the signal that would normally go to the headphones into the Uniti instead, or are you somehow reading the music file in its original digital form, which is what I understand the Naim iPod cable allows you to do? If the former, then I can completely understand the difference in sound quality, but if the latter, I can't understand it at all.

The Naim standalone DAC is the first to (officially) access the digital data on the iPod (5th generation and above), iPhone, iTouch & iPad. In the Uniti, the iPod input is analogue.

On the standalone DAC, from an iPod/Phone/Touch, the USB socket accepts data sampled up to 48 kHz, whereas from a USB stick it's up to 768 kHz. So, with a CD-quality WAV file (44.1 kHz), I would have expected similar results, since it would seem that the DAC is simply receiving digital data from a solid-state memory in either case (USB stick or iPod/Touch/Phone). I asked Emmanuel Lequere from DIMEXS (Canadian Naim distributor) about this, and his view is that with the iPod/Phone/Touch, the digital data is going through iTunes first, compromising the sound. Apparently there is no way around this.

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Originally posted by pcstockton:
really??????????????? really? That big of a difference?

You were playing the EXACT same files??

Leaving aside the issue of hyperbole, which I agree there is a lot of, why is it so hard to believe that different sources would sound noticeably different through the DAC?

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Originally posted by pcstockton:
Of course the beef will be that I only run $10K worth of kit (new), and a "much more resolving system" is needed to hear what others are making up and pulling out of thin air

My iPod Classic vs USB comparison was on the DAC with its supplied powercable (no Powerline), no XPS2 or 555PS (one day perhaps...) feeding an Audiolab 8000S integrated amplifier. Interconnects Chord Indigo. Speakers were a 5" two-way design using Morel components.

[Hyperbole OFF] With the iPod : good sound, not very involving, fine for polishing the cutlery or trolling the Naim forum . With the USB : great sound and impossible to do anything else.

What kind of files were these? WAV presumably?

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Originally posted by Naijeru:

Leaving aside the issue of hyperbole, which I agree there is a lot of, why is it so hard to believe that different sources would sound noticeably different through the DAC?

I am not saying there isn't a difference. But the language used is making it appear as though one source through the Naim DAC sounds like a 5i and other make it sound like a CDS3.

I doubt these extremes exist, with the DAC. I am guessing gradually increasing the quality of the transport from an iPhone all the way up to a CDX2 will bring incremental changes of gradually diminishing value.

Are you positive the Classic iPod you are using is actually supported by the DAC?

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Originally posted by pcstockton:
What kind of files were these? WAV presumably?

Yes ; 16/44.1 ripped with Exact Audio Copy

USB stick replay through the Ndac requires wav files in the route directory. Nothing else plays.

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With the iPod : good sound, not very involving, fine for polishing the cutlery or trolling the Naim forum . With the USB : great sound and impossible to do anything else.

Exactly - but digital iPod into DAC still much better than the analogue iPod into pre-amp.

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I asked Emmanuel Lequere from DIMEXS (Canadian Naim distributor) about this, and his view is that with the iPod/Phone/Touch, the digital data is going through iTunes first, compromising the sound. Apparently there is no way around this.

You can switch off the ability for iTunes to control the volume in the preferences/devices. This improves matters, and I think it then provides a clean digital feed.

From earlier discussions on this forum there seem to be differing views, some saying that the DAC isn't immune from jitter from the source (which I am not convinced by) and some saying that once the music is being streamed, it is vulnerable to noise, especially in the SPDIF interface in the iPod or Airport.

I wish someone could provide an authorative answer on this. But all I can report categorically from my DAC is that identical files sound less good from the iPod or Airport than they do on the memory stick. This is not something you have to switch back and forth to hear - it is quite obvious.

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I am not saying there isn't a difference. But the language used is making it appear as though one source through the Naim DAC sounds like a 5i and other make it sound like a CDS3.

I know this isn't exactly what you meant, but more generally I think it can sound anywhere between those two extremes, depending on what system you have. In a system with 555 tech and XPS power and all the expensive cables it could well sound like a CDS3. In a system with an old Nait, and no gismos, it will sound like a 5i.

By the way, I think this is brilliant. You can build a system around it. You can plug it into your entry level system , and it can still hold its own along the upgrade path onto top end systems too.

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Originally posted by pcstockton:
Are you positive the Classic iPod you are using is actually supported by the DAC?

Yup. It's a 5th generation model.

Jan - when you play from the iPod, does the iPod volume control affect the level?

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Originally posted by likesmusic:
Jan - when you play from the iPod, does the iPod volume control affect the level?

When I plug the iPod into the DAC (iPod on or off), the screen switches to 'OK to disconnect'. I can't control anything from the iPod ; it simply plays whatever was playing when I last used it or when I plugged it in.

Restoring the iPod to its factory settings through iTunes doesn't change this behaviour.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Jan

Dont the DAC's front panel buttons take over when the iPod is docked?

Is there a way you can test with a friend's iPhone or iTouch?

-p

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Originally posted by pcstockton:
Dont the DAC's front panel buttons take over when the iPod is docked?

Is there a way you can test with a friend's iPhone or iTouch?

-p

The DAC's controls take over for USB stick replay ; but not for (my) iPod. Not sure if this normal behaviour.

Will try with a friend's iPhone.

Thanks for all your suggestions !

I'm sure I could use the screen to control my iPod Touch when it was connected to my Ndac. Mind you it sounded so uninspiring playing back Apple Lossless that I didn't give it much time. Mac/HiFace into the Ndac is considerably better.

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Originally posted by pcstockton:
Dont the DAC's front panel buttons take over when the iPod is docked?

Is there a way you can test with a friend's iPhone or iTouch?

-p

The iPhone controls works as normal when its plugged into the DAC. Not sure about the iPod though - will test when daughter returns with it. I would have expected it to work as normal too.