Supernait & MacBook Question

The Airport Express will accommodate a mini-to-optical digital Toslink audio cable and you can buy these from the Apple Store. I have read that the digital signal coming out of the AE is "bit-perfect". I don't know if it is plug and play into the SuperNait but if it is, you are good to go.

You can connect your MacBook to your Supernait both ways. Directly through a optical cable or wirelessly through an Airport Express or Squeezebox. The wireless connection is more convenient since you aren't tethered by the cable.

Actually, there a few good reasons for using the "intermediary."

By using a SB/Sonos you not only have access to your music collection which you may have ripped to your computer or NAS, but you can then use the Sonos for rhapsody, internet radio, last.fm, shoutcast, etc... so alot of versatility. You also get to use a nice interface via a Sonos controller, pc,, mac, or itouch device to control everything. The limitation for the quality of the music here is the DAC in the Sonos as there is not real "pass through", the Sonos does have an effect on the music.

You can use the MAC directly to a SN DAC, I prefer a direct RCA cable over toslink. You can use you itunes interface, but you are still limited by the quality of the MAC OS driver which and would recommend using an expensive K8 as the ASIO driver as it is much better than that provided by the MAC. The AE does similar functions as the Sonos/SB, but you do not get the added features as I mentioned above.

This is a start.

How can a digital output from an AE be better than from a MAC?

quote:

Originally posted by speedbump:
After trolling on this site, I have one question that I can't seem to get a direct answer to: If you have a Macbook with an optical audio output, why use a Squeezebox, Airport Express, etc..., instead of feeding a toslink directly from the Mac right into the Supernait's digital input?
Sorry if this is a naive question, but it seems like a lot of people are using an SB or AE with a Supernait and I'm not sure I understand why. Also, any suggestions on the exact cable used would be helpful. Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Mitch

No reason other than conveience. Mac works just as well or better with a direct dig connection to the SN.

quote:

How can a digital output from an AE be better than from a MAC?

A Mac > DAC sounds much better than AE > DAC.

Both sources are 'bit perfect' (so long as enhancers are defeated and volume set to max), but the AE is very jittery (and no, not even a DAC-1 can work around the problem).

Mr Tibbs

We can debate quality of music replay, but as js says it boils down to convenience and versatility.

Mitch,

If you use your Mac directly into the SN DAC, then you can control everything through your ipod touch or itouch phone with the software they provide or conversely use AE to the SN DAC and control with your Mac.

Sonos/SB has the additional advantages as I mentioned above of access through the software to other musical sources for variety, some free and some subscription based. If you happen to use an MP3 player and not an Ipod then you can pay $2-3 extra/month and download your rhapsody music to the player called "Rhapsody to go."

Do not spend your money, IMO, on the expensive DC-1 cable for these connections (ie Mac/Sonos, etc...). It's better, but no worth the extra $$. An inexpensive RCA cable does just fine.

quote:

I'm not aware of any proof either way.

Here's a novel idea for you - try listening to the two options!

Mr Tibbs

My feeling is a laptop was designed for portability, tethering it to a hifi is bloody stupid. Especially with mac minis out there.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
My feeling is a laptop was designed for portability, tethering it to a hifi is bloody stupid. Especially with mac minis out there.

I guess I am ' blissfully ignorant ' then....

nice listening room....

rega1

quote:

Originally posted by rega1:
nice listening room....

rega1

It is. No tethering of the laptop neither.
Edit: I spot a cable

quote:

My feeling is a laptop was designed for portability, tethering it to a hifi is bloody stupid. Especially with mac minis out there.

Well, if you'd think about it for a minute you might realise it's an option that might suit some people quite nicely, so hardly 'bloody stupid'. Surely one of the big plusses of 'computer audio' is that the individual can tailor a solution to meet their particular needs. In my case I can stream from a Macbook or PC to the AE for when I'm doing other things and if I'm sitting down for a proper listen I can simply plug the macbook in and settle back with a touch for control. A Mac mini would not suit me as well because in my situation it would only be used for music playback making it less useful than a macbook.

Of course, what's more relevant to this thread is that people should be aware that the AE is inferior to a Macbook as a digital source. The mini should be equivalent to a macbook but I haven't heard that comparison so won't comment. What I can comment on (NOTE - as I've actually listened to both) is that a macbook pro is actually slightly better again that a standard macbook.

I bought the pro.

Mr Tibbs

a macbook pro will sound better because it costs more avole....

quote:

Prove it! If you're going to make rash statements like that, the onus is on you to prove it.

Well, I think you've a cheek asking me for proof when all you have is a 'belief' that the AE and Macs all sound the same.

At least I've taken the time to actually listen to the alternatives and am certainly entitled to come here and report my opinion. Also there are good technical reasons as to why these various digital sources can (and do) sound different. If you cannot accept or understand that, then that's your problem.

Mr Tibbs

I think on other threads it has been mentioned that the AE only passes at 16 bit. Macs should be set to 24bit in Audio/Midi for perfect 16 bit, I believe this has also been discussed. This may well have an effect on differences between direct Mac-dac and Mac-AE-dac. This is interesting as my girlfriend just got an AE yesterday for other reasons and of course, I had to try it... and ... there is still a solid cable neatly coiled up next to my DACs. I am not saying the AE was bad, not at all ( it will be perfect for parties, but then again with Remote on a Touch or iPhone , it might not be needed) but I did prefer direct connection.

Tibbs, I also got the pro as you can see but have not heard about a difference in sound to a regular Macbook......but I will investigate in a few hours....if she lets me !

AE or not, Supernait or not, nothing is "bloody stupid " if it works well with one's lifestyle and they enjoy it, great. Sure this way may sound slightly better than that way, but I will keep the USB or the Optical cable along the floor until someone trips on it ! ( and by then maybe the AE will be in its third incarnation with 24 bit, I have no idea about jitter on the AE...) It is great to have options though , so when I feel really " Smart " I can just set the MBpro on a small stand next to the system and use my Touch, or she can use the iPhone, and likewise, when I am bloody, or stupid, I can tether......

cheers

quote:

Tibbs, I also got the pro as you can see but have not heard about a difference in sound to a regular Macbook......but I will investigate in a few hours....if she lets me !

The difference is subtle - bass lines are a little bit tighter and better defined. Keep in mind I've got big sealed-box speakers that go low and really spotlight bass quality.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts regarding the AE Mac comparison (to see if they match mine)

Thanks

Mr Tibbs

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Tibbs:

quote:

Tibbs, I also got the pro as you can see but have not heard about a difference in sound to a regular Macbook......but I will investigate in a few hours....if she lets me !

The difference is subtle - bass lines are a little bit tighter and better defined. Keep in mind I've got big sealed-box speakers that go low and really spotlight bass quality.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts regarding the AE Mac comparison (to see if they match mine)

Thanks

Mr Tibbs

I am not good with audio-nut terms but in one word I will just say it was noticeably "smoother". I also must add that I actually suggested that she purchase the AE as I am moving to Germany but am leaving her a mint NAD3020 and some old PSB speakers ( and a Beresford ) and the truth is the AE was a lot better than I thought It would be, but yes, when I got a chance to use it in the main system, the sound was smoother with a bit more space around instruments with a direct connection. The AE still sounded great though and she is very happy.

I got a dirty look a few minutes ago when I asked to borrow her MB for further audio experiments so Ill have to get back to you on that one ! I will keep an ear out for the bass definition though,.... I am using 3A MM's (now known as 'Reference 3a MM deCappo' ) which although ported and small-medium box, are known for their quantity ,and more importantly, quality of bass considering their size, so I should be able to notice if indeed there is a difference.

Also, just thinking, although I believe the new unibody Macbook and Macbook pro use the same BB DA chip, the actual implementation of the optical I/O may be a bit different between the two for reasons such as internal space and layout. This would/could account for a slight difference in sound..... perhaps.

cheers

quote:

I am not good with audio-nut terms but in one word I will just say it was noticeably "smoother". I also must add that I actually suggested that she purchase the AE as I am moving to Germany but am leaving her a mint NAD3020 and some old PSB speakers ( and a Beresford ) and the truth is the AE was a lot better than I thought It would be, but yes, when I got a chance to use it in the main system, the sound was smoother with a bit more space around instruments with a direct connection. The AE still sounded great though and she is very happy.

I agree. I think the AE (while decent enough with some material) can sound a little strained at times, esp when the music gets busy. Apart from that, the acid test for me is that when I stream music via the AE I tend to want to read or do something else at the same time - It's as if the music is not grabbing my attention. OTOH with the mac direct I simply don't want to do anything other than listen to the music.

Mr Tibbs