That vinyl sound

Hi Ian,

I don't want to rain on your hope but you will need a CDS machine before you start approaching a good TT. Again that is just approaching. Anything less has a digital presentation which can be enjoyable in it's own way but is limiting in musical flow.

John

I reckon my CDX/82/2xHi/250 sounds about as good as my LP12/Ittok/K18/62s/140 used to. (Different strenghts/weaknesses though.)

Interesting question Ian!

I'm kinda facing the same dilemma, at this moment.

I have a CDX and love it very much.
On the other hand,... about 3 weeks ago i had this chance to borrow an ancient (though modified) Thorens TD165/SME3009/AudioNote mm TT, just to check it out, listen to some of my old records again, that hasn't been on a TT for years, and to hear for myself what this vinyl-revival is all about.

Well,... after a few days and a few LP's, all I can say is:"I just wish my CDX had this easy, flowing, foottapping,natural sound!"

Don't get me wrong. The CDX does get pretty close and did have better focus, but (especially acoustic) instruments seem to have more natural timbre, and the bass was better controlled using the old TT.

In a way it's kinda sad that a recent, state of the art, very expensive CD-player like the CDX, get's beaten up by 26year old, slightly modified, turntable

This doesn't mean I'm not enjoying my CDX anymore now. It's a nice, but different musical presentation, but if my CDX would sound like the old Thorens TT I have on loan now, I would never think about going analog again!

greetings,
Alco

Thanks for the responces.

I remember when I had the Linn Axis, me and a friend had a listening evening, and we compared my Axis to his Arcam Cd player, the difference was massive. We played the Dire Straights Cd Brothers in arms, which is actualy a really good Cd recording IMO.

But the Arcam was left for dead when it came to the bottom line....Music. It was hard dry and had the typical hard edge glare that Cd suffers from. My Axis conveyed the music with bags more clarity, and depth.

My current Micromega stage 1 is not too bad really when on average listening volumes. But as soon as its cranked up to say about the 11 oclock mark it can become a bit tiresome and hard.

I imagine it would not be as obvious with a bare CDX as it is with my Micromega (I hope not anyway).

But I would love to enjoy that Vinyl sound once more, its just miles better than CD. My friend has a Rega Planer 2 and that is also in a different class than any CD player I have heard.

Ian Marsh

Hi Ian

The CDX is a very good CD player. As I said in my post to Alco's question (P25 vs CDX) - the first CD player that really clicked for me.

I would rate the CDX to be on a par musically (whatever that means!) with the Rega P25. They have quite different presentation styles and strengths and weaknesses as you'd expect.

Jay

Yeah...well it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Ian

I have just parted with a Linn Axis (as it was toddler compatible in my household), I was left with a Denon DCD3520, a battleship CD player from the early 90s (17kg!!!).

Having listened to a friends CDX system I decied my CD player wasn't up to much (in comparison), but with very limited budget I looked around for alternatives. I selected a Meridian 200/203 transport/DAC combination.

When demoed against the CDX in the same system (82/2xHiCap/2x135/Shahinian Obelisks), both myself and the owner of the CDX (+CDPS) system were generally of the same opionion. The Meridian was almost as detailed as the CDX but the presentation was a bit more laid back (less in your face). A CD3.5 was also to hand and this was noticiably harsh compared with the Meridian or the CDX.

The CDX presented the music in your lap, you were sat on the stage edge, whilst with the Meridian you were 10 rows back (The Meridian was cold). On subsequent warming up with my system at home I reckon you have moved from row 10 to row 3.

It is the most analogue sounding CD combo that I have heard for a long time, and I reckon that it is definitely beeter than my Axis was, both in a detail and foot tapping way. I don't want to stop listening to music!!!!

For £350-£400 pounds s/h this has got to be a stunning buy (so much so that I've just bought a second one to play with!!)

I now have a 200 Mk1 transport, a 200 Mk2 transport serviced and with trichord clock mod, a 203 Bitstream DAC and a 203 Delta Sigma DAC. I'm currently running the 200MK2 + 203 Bitsream with a Chord Codac interconnect. I have bought some other s/h digital interconnects to try as well. All of this has cost me less than a decent CD3.5!!!!

If you want an analogue sound I would recommend trying to listen to a 200/203 or even a 206. But if you want your music in front of your nose get a CDX.

I am using Naim amplification (62/140) and find this generation of Meridian players a good match.

Do a search for 206 or Meridian in this forum, you will find a number of comments, both pro-Meridian and pro-CDX. (A balanced view on a forum, no surely some mistake)

Mr Perceptive

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Marsh:
I remember when I had the Linn Axis, me and a friend had a listening evening, and we compared my Axis to his Arcam Cd player, the difference was massive. We played the Dire Straights Cd Brothers in arms, which is actualy a really good Cd recording IMO.

---

That's very interesting... Brothers in arms is a DDD fully digital recording; on vinyl you're still effectively hearing a digital master at 48khz IIRC, so technically you're listening to something only marginally better than CD's maximum standard... Although of course, on the vinyl version you won't get those horrific loud cracks and snaps at the start of the title track caused by digital drop outs, since the vinyl doesn't have the extended versions

That said, I'm a vinylist myself, and it's surprising just how much better even rough digital masters sound like on vinyl - Whitesnake's 1987 on my Rega Planar3/RB300/Ortofon 540 wees all over the CD version on my Mk 1 Rega Planet any day of the week... As does Tracy Chapman's album.

...and as for a pure analog 70s mastered album - even on rank non-virgin vinyl - ahem... In fact the only side by side dem I've done that I didn't rate vinyl over CD on was Forever Changes by Love - that remastered CD is excellent. Note I only have the pancake late 80s vinyl though - which I picked up last year just for the cover

When the music's over turn out the lights

I think there are some CD recordings out there that do come close to vinyl on a good CD player. At the time when I compared the Dire Straights Brothers in arms CD against the vinyl version as I mentioned above, the Axis really did do a much better job than my friends Arcam CD player.

As mentioned the Brothers in arms CD is a full DDD recording and its one of the best I have heard to be honest. Having said that it does sound much better on my Micromega stage 1 CD player than my friends Arcam did at the time. The stage 1 produces a more vinyl sound only in comparison to my friends Arcam.

Through my system it sounds fantastic, but if I still owned my old Axis it would be interesting to see how they compaired, but I still think the Axis would come out on top.

I hope when I purchase a Naim CDX (in about 2 months time) it will be more vinyl sounding than my Micromega stage 1, or if not more vinyl sounding I am sure it will blow its lid off when it comes to out and out musical quality.

Maybe the Brothers in arms CD should be the first disc inserted in to the CDX

Ian Marsh

quote:

---

Tenuous link - Neil Young's 'On The Beach' just re-released on HDCD(?)

---

Hooray!

Richard

Also on loverly 180g vinyl.

Kevin

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Marsh:
As mentioned the Brothers in arms CD is a full DDD recording and its one of the best I have heard to be honest.

Maybe the Brothers in arms CD should be the first disc inserted in to the CDX

---

WHY is the original (not heard the - ahem - remaster(!?!?) of Brothers In Arms) so quiet - it's easily about a quarter quieter than even early 90s CDs? Also - how can you remaster something that only has a 48khz original sampling rate anyway?

You're right on Brothers in arms though - it's one of the best sounding cassettes I have as well (got given this in 1987 for my birthday - when I got my first portable stereo - I milked "So far away" to death on that thing!

What's "On the beach" like - I'm tempted to buy it just 'cos I like the cover, but I don't think I've ever heard any Neil Young... I heard that rumour re the master tapes too - several times in fact...

When the music's over turn out the lights

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kevin-W:
Richard

Also on loverly 180g vinyl.

Kevin

---

Thanks Kevin. Looks like I'll get both....

Diverse Vinyl have it.

Simon

Jedster--

Funny you should mention Zen Arcade. I've got it on both LP and CD and the LP is FAR better than the CD. The LP is also closer to what it sounded like live--a lot more feel, snarl, etc.

Truly an amazing album.

Best,

Bob

quote:

---

The LP is also closer to what it sounded like live--a lot more feel, snarl, etc.

---

Bob,

When did you see them live? I saw them in Long Beach around 84/85. Great show! Near the end of the show everyone was up on stage with the band (including myself).

cheers

Dan

Dan--

I started following them in 1984 or so in the New York--NJ--Philly area. And I was at a few shows where everyone wound up on stage--now THAT was cool!

Bob

quote:

---

Zen Arcade. I've got it on both LP and CD and the LP is FAR better than the CD.

---

I think most of the SST vinyl releases from the '80s (Husker Du, Minutemen, Descendents, etc.) still sound quite good. By the way, much of the label's vinyl back catalogue, including Zen Arcade, is still available from SST at very reasonable prices.

ejl

OK, ordering some stuff as I type. Quick question :is the EP of land speed record 33 or 45?

Dan

Dan--

My copy of Land Speed Record is 33. However, my copy of Metal Circus is a 45.

Best,

Bob

Bargain

Well that site is just plain dangerous - 2 double albums and 3 LPs for $52.50 including shipping!

Here's what I ended up with: Zen Arcade, Land Speed Record, 3-Way Tie for Last, Ballot Result, and Ragin' Full On. Feel like I'm in college again Bob, thanks for the heads up on Metal Circus, it was in my cart before your post.

cheers

Dan

ironchopper,

Don't forget what has to be the best cover ever - Eight Miles High. Played at appropriate volume, your neighbors will surely thank you the nex day!

Dan

From what I've read, seen and listened too, each format (CD and LP) has it's own set of advantages.
I believe that newer CD players are making better use of the advantages that CD as a format has, e.g. bass definition, slam, extension etc. Unfortunately, I also happen to believe that this is taking us further away from the style of sound that LPs are good at.

For instance, I've recently heard two LP12 fronted systems, one against a CD5/hicap, the other being a CDI. Frankly the LP and CD formats were completely different in their presentation style, and the one you chose really does come more down to personal preference.

I would agree that Meridian players certainly sound more analogue, having heard a 588 and owned a 203 DAC. Can't say that I agree with the 203 being comparable to a CDX though. I used my own against a CD5, and the CD5 (with no *cap) stuffed it.
Personally I've gone the Teac VRDS route, which sounds similar to the 203, just better in every way.