Chopin and Debussy
Posted by: mikeeschman on 03 January 2010
Debussy won two medals for playing Chopin, and edited a complete edition of Chopin's music. Outside of this, I can find no direct linkage between them, although many feel Debussy is Chopin's successor.
They both wrote sets of preludes and etudes.
Does anyone know of anything else that links these two composers?
They both wrote sets of preludes and etudes.
Does anyone know of anything else that links these two composers?
Posted on: 03 January 2010 by Dan Carney
A couple of my own observations;
Both Chopin and Debussy were superb improvisers. I think, in some ways, although their harmonic language was different, their musical ideals were quite similar.
They both had the piano central to their compositional output. They both composed with images/stories in mind (more obvious in Debussy i.e. titling). They both had some Spanish/Latin American influences - some of the Chopin Preludes have a distinctly Spanish feel, well, Maltese! Of course, Chopin spent most of his life in and around France, thus establishing his own style within the Country. Debussy's piano teacher was a peer of Alkan. In fact, Alkan lived opposite Chopin, and when Chopin died, he had left instructions for his students to continue their studies with Alkan. From this, we can deduce that Chopin, and his music, was at the hight of popularity when Debussy was a student.
However linked they may be, there are distinct differences. Due to the Impressionist movement in art, Debussy (and others) were writing in correlation to the Art world. Chopin was not as involved in such a movement. Debussy was travelling away from specific tonal centres (in an intelligent way) - the use of more 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, etc. in the textures was, no doubt, semi-related to the world of Jazz, which was beginning to spread around the same time Debussy was flourishing.
This, as a whole, is a very interesting topic, and sadly, not one that I know a great deal about (ashamed!). I'll ad more when I've got my head out the books!

Both Chopin and Debussy were superb improvisers. I think, in some ways, although their harmonic language was different, their musical ideals were quite similar.
They both had the piano central to their compositional output. They both composed with images/stories in mind (more obvious in Debussy i.e. titling). They both had some Spanish/Latin American influences - some of the Chopin Preludes have a distinctly Spanish feel, well, Maltese! Of course, Chopin spent most of his life in and around France, thus establishing his own style within the Country. Debussy's piano teacher was a peer of Alkan. In fact, Alkan lived opposite Chopin, and when Chopin died, he had left instructions for his students to continue their studies with Alkan. From this, we can deduce that Chopin, and his music, was at the hight of popularity when Debussy was a student.
However linked they may be, there are distinct differences. Due to the Impressionist movement in art, Debussy (and others) were writing in correlation to the Art world. Chopin was not as involved in such a movement. Debussy was travelling away from specific tonal centres (in an intelligent way) - the use of more 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, etc. in the textures was, no doubt, semi-related to the world of Jazz, which was beginning to spread around the same time Debussy was flourishing.
This, as a whole, is a very interesting topic, and sadly, not one that I know a great deal about (ashamed!). I'll ad more when I've got my head out the books!

Posted on: 03 January 2010 by Oldnslow
I think Debussy pretty much rejected the music of Chopin, Brahms, Wagner, et al, even if he may have enjoyed some of their music. From a purely layman's point of view, I think of Debussy as a very avant garde composer, a major figure in modern music well ahead of his time, who gave us music of great originality and beauty in nearly every genre.
Posted on: 04 January 2010 by Sister E.
quote:Originally posted by Oldnslow:
I think Debussy pretty much rejected the music of Chopin, Brahms, Wagner, et al, even if he may have enjoyed some of their music. From a purely layman's point of view, I think of Debussy as a very avant garde composer, a major figure in modern music well ahead of his time, who gave us music of great originality and beauty in nearly every genre.
But of course there would be no Pelleas without Parsifal. If you cannot hear Wagner in Pelleas then you must be deaf! In fact it's pretty hard to talk about anyone post Tristan without mentioning Wagner....
Sister xx
Posted on: 04 January 2010 by mikeeschman
quote:Originally posted by Sister E.:
But of course there would be no Pelleas without Parsifal. If you cannot hear Wagner in Pelleas then you must be deaf! In fact it's pretty hard to talk about anyone post Tristan without mentioning Wagner....
Sister xx
How did Wagner influence the Stravinsky ballets?
Posted on: 04 January 2010 by Sister E.
Well the Firebird is full of leitmotifs for a start..and Petroushka is regarded as the embodiment of Russian Symbolism, total art or "Gesamtkunstwerk" .
Sister xx
Sister xx
Posted on: 04 January 2010 by mudwolf
oh yer making my toes curl "Gesamtkunstwerk"
Posted on: 04 January 2010 by mikeeschman
It really doesn't sound anything like Wagner.
Leitmotifs? I don't hear that. Many used themes associated with characters before Wagner - think of Mozart's "Magic Flute".
Stravinsky's melodies and harmonies are about as far from Wagner as you can get.
Leitmotifs? I don't hear that. Many used themes associated with characters before Wagner - think of Mozart's "Magic Flute".
Stravinsky's melodies and harmonies are about as far from Wagner as you can get.
Posted on: 04 January 2010 by Sister E.
Mike,
Just because it doesn't SOUND like Wagner doesn't mean to say Stravinsky wasn't indirectly influenced by him. Nobody before Wagner used leitmotifs in the way he did to identify characters and situations in the way he did(maybe Weber, who DID influence Wagner) and Stravinsky uses them in the same way in the Firebird.
This is not some new theory I've come up with, it's common knowledge.
Sister xx
Just because it doesn't SOUND like Wagner doesn't mean to say Stravinsky wasn't indirectly influenced by him. Nobody before Wagner used leitmotifs in the way he did to identify characters and situations in the way he did(maybe Weber, who DID influence Wagner) and Stravinsky uses them in the same way in the Firebird.
This is not some new theory I've come up with, it's common knowledge.
Sister xx
Posted on: 05 January 2010 by mikeeschman
I can't find any written references that link Stravinsky and Wagner as you describe. Help me out.
I did find this from Stuart Campbell's article "Stravinsky and the Critics" :
"... Stravinsky was in most respects the antithesis of such German composers as Schoenberg, whose music continued within a framework laid down by Wagner.."
I did find this from Stuart Campbell's article "Stravinsky and the Critics" :
"... Stravinsky was in most respects the antithesis of such German composers as Schoenberg, whose music continued within a framework laid down by Wagner.."