The decline of British bicycle building
Posted by: Jonathan Gorse on 12 April 2005
In a week which has seen the collapse of Rover I have been dusting off my beloved Raleigh Royal 531 tourer (1985 vintage) and putting it side by side with my 2002 Scott Boulder MTB. Quite frankly the quality of ride, paint and metalwork on the British handbuilt tourer is far beyond the standard of the US machine. What a crime that Raleigh and so many other great British bicycle firms have disappeared and the market has been saturated by by garish American branded crap which in reality is made in Taiwan. It also seems that since the decline of the British manufacturers cycle prices have gone through the roof and hence I suspect that many bikes are no longer honestly priced but incorporate a far higher price margin for the brand.
It's not hard now to spend £2000 on a bike built on a production line in Taiwan and marketed as a premium product by the USA majors - but is it worth £2000? On the other hand a similar amount will buy a handbuilt machine tailored to the riders size and weight, specced to an individuals requirements, painted any colour you like and assembled by hand by a craftsman in England - why do so many people prefer the former?
The article here makes interesting if sad reading on the incredible rise and fall of Raleigh:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/raleigh.htmAs an aside I'm wondering whether to change the frame on the Scott to something steel rather than alloy and have it painted in a colour of my choice by Mercian. I have seen British made Reynolds 853 MTB frames from around £400 - views?
Jonathan
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Gorse:
I have seen British made Reynolds 853 MTB frames from around £400 - views?
Any Reynolds 853 steel MTB frame from a UK supplier for £400 will mostly likely have been designed here but made in Taiwan.
I have one - a Cotic Soul - and it's fantastic.
Probably all of the bikes I now have or have owned recently have been welded in Taiwan and in all of them the quality has been excellent.
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Mick P
Jonathan
Pashley's are 100% British and supply the Post Office with 6000 bicycles each year.
The quality is excellent but I think a few new models would not come amiss.
I have the Paramount model which is a solid and well built city bike.
I use it quite often and since early March have lost 5 lb in weight by cycling instead of using the car.
Here is their website.
http://www.pashley.co.uk/products.htmlRegards
Mick
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Jonathan
Pashley's are 100% British and supply the Post Office with 6000 bicycles each year.
I wasn't aware that Pashley made a Reynolds 853 MTB frame. Most of their bikes are quite specific products, either practical (and heavy) work bikes or retro oddities.
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Rockingdoc
Get yourselves down to Roberts in Croydon for an outstanding made-to-measure bike that will cost a lot less than two grand. I use mine every day for a 20 mile round trip commute, rain or shine. Faultless.
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Steve G
The Roberts Dogsbolx is a nice looking frame but it's expensive (£695) and doesn't generally get as well reviewed as the Cotic Soul I have.
I haven't seen anywhere that explicitly states the steel used either so I'm not sure if it's 853 or something cheaper.
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Mick P
Steve
I know Pashleys will make anything, even a one off, to order....at a price.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
I know Pashleys will make anything, even a one off, to order....at a price.
Supposedly 853 is tricky to weld so I'd expect that price to be quite high.
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by long-time-dead
I used to have a Mercian roadbike (albeit 20 years ago) and it was STUNNING.
Wanted a new roadbike last summer and bought a Trek 2300. UK bikes couldn't compete at the price unfortunately.
Like most good things that are British, they are copied to hell and back.
My MTB is Canadian..........
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Jonathan Gorse
The Cotic soul does indeed look like a good bet although I don't understand why they can't paint it in any colour you like. Best option I guess would be to send it off to Mercian for a nice Chameleon paint job (£95) for a bespoke style.
Mick - many thanks for the reference to Pashley - they make the world's best roadsters but I'd be dubious of buying a mountain bike from them given they don't as a rule build them. Did you incidentally ever get around to putting a Brooks saddle on your Pashley and a Carradice saddlebag? It deserves nothing less!
Happy cycling,
Jonathan
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Mick P
Jonathan
Yes I have a Brooks saddle and very good it is too.
Brooks will soon be releasing a matching set of saddlebags and I am holding back for that.
I have been to Pashleys many times and although old fashioned, the quality is superb.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by count.d
www.hewittcycles.co.ukMy bike was put together by this guy. This is the only man who is allowed to touch my bike. He's a perfectionist.
Apart from me, I've never met anyone like him in any subject.
Go and buy a bike from him.
Posted on: 12 April 2005 by Steve Toy
My bike is ten years old and only cost me £350 quid.
Most of the bits including the frame were imported.
The frame came from Japan as did the running gear - Shimano.
The seat and brakes were Italian.
The wheels were French.
The handlebars and seat pin were British though.
The lot was assembled by Henry Burtons in Stafford and t was literally made to measure - he even got his tape measure out for my inside leg and arm-length as part of a half-hour or so consultation, during which I got to select all the bits according to my needs/budget.
They are still trading, and quite simply if you want a decent bike, get it hand-assembled by a local bike shop to your own particular specification subject only to his recommendations.
At least then you know it's British (and hand) built.
The cost is only the same as buying a mass-produced brand-name bike but the quality control and after-sale service is much better.
OK I had to wat a month for it to be built (he was busy - fair play to him) but he did let me pop round to his workshop and let me see it in its unfinished guise ahead of final completion.
Posted on: 13 April 2005 by Nime
More than twenty years ago we bought my wife a new Raleigh ladies bike with curved downtube. It weighed a ton, was like riding a lead garden gate and she hated it. Fortunately somebody used bolt cutters outside the Coop in town and relieved her of the burden of riding it.
So we bought an ancient (possibly 1930's) BSA ladies bike from a secondhand shop to replace it. It was/is incredibly lightweight, nippy and responsive even with one fairly high single gear. She used to ride up some incredibly steep hills on it well into her forties. I sometimes struggled to keep up on my 10-speed racing bike.
Brooks saddles are now doing a superb, retro, spiral sprung, leather topped job for the fuller figure. It ooozes quality bus is a bit expensive compared with my old B17 and I certainly don't need the extra support myself. But worth a look.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.htmlPosted on: 13 April 2005 by Steve G
quote:
quite simply if you want a decent bike, get it hand-assembled by a local bike shop
Or even better do what I now do - buy a frame and all the bits and build it up yourself. It's not difficult, it's cheaper than getting a bike shop to do it, you can use 2nd hand parts if you like, and best of all it's good experience if you encounter any problems in the field.
Posted on: 13 April 2005 by Matthew T
I have recently built a new road bike but no UK gear on it. Italian frame and wheels and japanese gearset. It is really nice.
In terms of saddles this is where you really want to be...
Posted on: 13 April 2005 by Rockingdoc
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G:
The Roberts Dogsbolx is a nice looking frame but it's expensive (£695) and doesn't generally get as well reviewed as the Cotic Soul I have.
I haven't seen anywhere that explicitly states the steel used either so I'm not sure if it's 853 or something cheaper.
I was talking about road frames because I don't believe MTB bikes need to be made-to-measure. Roberts use a mix of tubes, often Columbus, optimised for the weight and strength of the particular rider.
I don't trust reviews, because it is unlikely the bike was built for the reviewer. I am a total convert to the bespoke road frame as it makes cycling a different experience.
Posted on: 13 April 2005 by graham55
Sorry to spoil the show, people. I have a Cannondale Gemini, built from the best parts from around the world, and hand assembled in the good ole' US of A.
I've never seen any other bike to touch it.
G
Posted on: 13 April 2005 by Berlin Fritz
NASA have approached me for the plans of my jobby !
Fritz Von It's so strong and fast and great looking your wildest dreams would never touch it
Posted on: 14 April 2005 by Derek Wright
Any suggestions for a utilitarian "cooking" bike ie nothing fancy, but easy to ride ie free wheeling and not heavy
In hifi terms - a Currys type offering rather than a Naim 552 500 etc.
Posted on: 14 April 2005 by AndyFelin
Went to lunch today with a mate, Dave Porter, who owns/runs Herongate Cycles in err Herongate, near Brentwood, Essex and like a previous postee said that 99% of frames are made in Taiwan, South Korea etc but they are superb quality, even the Italian Bianchi's and Coppi's. How times change.
He had a beautiful Scott road bike in stock: carbon fibre frame, latest super light Dura-Ace groupset, fancy radial spoked wheels, weighed about 14lb. - absolutely gorgeous, only problem it cost £3200. Compared to top-end hi-fi that's nothing though.
Unless you are a particularly peculiar shape you don't need a made to measure frame. You can get so much adjustment in the bars, stem, crank length, saddle height/position that in most cases a bespoke is uneccessary. Nice but probably better to use the money saved in better wheels or put towards a training holiday in Spain.
All this talk about bikes is making me want to start again...
Andy
Posted on: 14 April 2005 by Steve G
Given we haven't had a bike pics thread for a while:
My lovely UK designed, Taiwan built and home assembled Cotic Soul. I must get some updated pics of it as it's had more pimpy bits thrown at it over time - Fox Talas RLC adjustable forks, Thompson post, Easton magnesium stem etc.
My also lovely US designed and Taiwan built Epic.
I really need to work less and ride more!
Posted on: 14 April 2005 by Berlin Fritz
Damned beautiful, Please stop posting such lovelies I needed a cold shower after those.
Fritz Von Where's me clips ?
Having spent many a wednesday evening with mates many moons afore in downtown afore-mentioned Brentwood in what at the time was a very nice place, playing snooker then visiting one of the finest Indian restaurants I've experienced afterwards, I'm sure I know what I'd rather do with £3 Grand of push bike dosh, and that's a fact John, innit.
Posted on: 15 April 2005 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G:
I really need to work less and ride more!
Took my own advice and headed out for a spin this evening. The weather was great but it was fun anyway:
Posted on: 17 April 2005 by Sir Cycle Sexy
All collections should start with one of these. The classic Brit tourer. This is mine from when it was clean...
C
Posted on: 18 April 2005 by matthewr
Contary to the above Pashley do make some MTBs -- include a Reynolds 531 tubed steel frame called the 26Mhz.
They also make BMXs a range of specialist trials bikes and even a 24" cruiser:
Or at least they used to.
Matthew
