Sea Change

quote:

I'm willing to bet that if you went into various pubs and said to guys with families in there what I quoted you on you would leave most of them with a great smack to the mouth.
Now if you went into the same places and put to them what you have written above then the response would be entirely different, even if the sentiment is entirely the same.


I have to admit that I struggle to believe that you told your brother that you thought he was a selfish .....to his face, but more likely said your thoughts as in the above post, but that again matters not.


Not a waste of time - we both see the future in very differnt ways obviously.
To have an outlook as bleak and dark as yours cannot be good though.

Dear Steve,

Firstly it must be years since I went into a pub on my own! It has been known for me to do so years ago, but not to speak to strangers.

Secondly, I did tell my brother what I thought, and he did get over it. However he has not spoken to me since he went to see a woman outside his marriage, and I told him exactly what I thought of that. It is nearly six years since we have spoken. I do not intend to break the silence. He has emigrated to China. I am pleased.

My outlook is not voluntary, and no it is not easy to deal with, but to deny my view, would be to act as an ostrich.

Regards from George

George, I think you miss the basic physical properties that constitute becoming a parent.
A man and woman feel so much love for each other, they bring new life into the world.
It is the ultimate act of hope.

Now those children may face a bleak and foreboding world, to which they may fall victim. Then again, maybe not.
Either way, they have faired better than the unborn, life being the greatest gift in all creation.

I am proud to say my daughters still cherish their relationships with me and my wife. We are in each others lives every day. There is no greater pleasure. Were it not for my children, I would be pointless in every way that matters.

Not everyone will agree with these thoughts. They require projecting yourself into the world as an agent of change. They also require an abundance of hope, courage and love.

For myself, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Thinking as I do makes the world a better place.

I keep the rest of my family (and my wife's) close as well. It makes it rewarding to rise from bed every morning.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikeeschman:
George, I think you miss the basic physical properties that constitute becoming a parent.
A man and woman feel so much love for each other, they bring new life into the world.
It is the ultimate act of hope.

QUOTE]

This is at best rose tinted and at worst rather smug. My wife and I love each other no less than those who choose to be parents. Many couples without much love become parents in desperation.

Your joy in fatherhood shines through-good for you, but don't apply that to all.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
Your joy in fatherhood shines through-good for you, but don't apply that to all.

Bruce

Not smug at all. Grateful, yes, but not smug.

I simply felt the thread needed a little sunshine from the other side of the pond.
Many opinions posted here were full of rain clouds.

You don't have to be a parent to appreciate what parents do, and take them for what they are.

One day a daughter of mine could provide you a service desperately needed, and otherwise unobtainable.

If not my daughter, certainly someone's child
:-)

In view of my occupation I'm fairly staisfied that I might have earned a little care in my old age by helping out a few families along the way!

I do get an enormous kick from seeing families grow in all their messy glory. I see plenty of sad ones too. I care for 4 generations of extended families, and have had continuity over 15years or more with many.

Bruce

For about seven years, my wife and I cared for five relatives over ninety. That experience changed the way I look at everything.

Glad to see your happy side Bruce :-)

I'm always happy! It is my Birthday today!


Bruce

Now those children may face a bleak and foreboding world, to which they may fall victim. Then again, maybe not.
Either way, they have faired better than the unborn, life being the greatest gift in all creation.

Dear Mike,

I entirely disagree that an person never conceived could possibly be worse off than one conceived. Simple really in that the unconceived potential person does not exist and therefore cannot be better off, or worse off.

Given my parents motivations in starting a family I could wish that they had been unable to procreate. That is a stark thought, and it is not far to go to conclude that if I think there is good reason not too [ie. the current over-population crisis] then I could conclude that I am not depriving my unconceived offspring of anything!

If I had never been born then you would never have had any urge to be sad at my non-existence! It is exactly in this way that I can see the benefits and lacks of negative effects from not procreating. Everyone must make their own decision on this, but I don't think that simply having a family is something to applaud.

Best wishes from George

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
I'm always happy! It is my Birthday today!
Bruce

Happy birthday, Bruce!

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Mike,

If I had never been born

When I was a child, the worst curse that an adult could fling at you was to say they wished you had never been born.

I am an avid student of 20th century history. It has made first person accounts the most highly treasured of resources possible, to my mind.

George, I am giving you a first person account of the joy of life.

Relent and be happy!

You should try to enjoy humanity more than you do. It will make your food taste better, and every day would be a bit sunnier.

Tonight it is about 50 degrees and rainy with a strong North wind. We went out to eat anyway, at one of the local groceries. Radosta's has all the booze you could want, a meat locker to die for, and a fully stocked deli, with seating for 40 to 50 people.

There were five families in attendance, with 20 or so kids from 2 up to 16 or 17.

My wife and I ordered poboys, mine a hogshead cheese and her's a catfish. I pulled a Boylan's grape soda, my wife going for the homemade iced tea.

A poboy is something special. It's a french loaf baked in a coal fired brick oven, and here it's done at 17 feet below sea level. It is the lightest, flaky, float away from you bread you can imagine, and the aroma is like first love.

The kids were all carrying on, eating, drinking, shouting, running in celebration of Friday evening.

For some reason we left that place in a particularly good mood. You have to take advantage of good moods when they come. They do come and go like weather. They are not for you to make, they come at their will. Gratitude at their presence does seem to result in more frequent visits :-)

quote:

Given my parents motivations in starting a family I could wish that they had been unable to procreate.

FFS, stop being so self absorbed in your own lack of worth and trying to make everyone else so miserable
..Jesus.....George, you are clearly not dumb but happiness seems to escape you.

Jim

George, please post today on some happy musical topic, as a favor to me as a friend.

Anything will do.

I need to hear your friendly voice.

What amazes me is that people who have no kids seem to know so much about them and have all the "right" anwers for the parents too.

I have 4 offspring - I do wish sometimes though that they were born with both job and flat

Love them to bits!!!

No, we don't have the answers.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Tate:

Love them to bits!!!

:-)

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
No polite title possible

What could that possibly have to do with me, my wife and our two children?

Do you think we can expect an explosion of families with 10 or more children?

Personally, I think it is extreme and somewhat isolated.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
No polite title possible

What could that possibly have to do with me, my wife and our two children?

Do you think we can expect an explosion of families with 10 or more children?

Personally, I think it is extreme and somewhat isolated.

True. Just found it amusing, in a sad and scary way.

Put three beers in me, and I'd be slapping that father in the head :-) Laughing it's true, but slapping at any rate ...

Put three beers in Mrs Dugger and it sounds like it's game on.

quote:

Originally posted by Mat Cork:
Put three beers in Mrs Dugger and it sounds like it's game on.

HA :-)

George,

If you had kids you might not be such a miserable person's female parts.

quote:

Originally posted by David Scott?:
George,

If you had kids you might not be such a miserable person's female parts.

At least they - the female parts - have a good use! I am not quite saying I am useless, but people might generally prefer a good woman! LOL! Thr fact of this would not make me sad, which I am not, in any case!

What gets me is not so much the parents who have one child or two, but those that seem to want to have more. That is daft! Sometimes, when I look at all this doom and gloom, I get quite cross, and so post perhaps too vehemently, but as Steve noted, later I can express precisely the same point in a way that is much less "rude," though the sentiment is the same.

But there is no reason for me to think that the world would be better off for few chips off my old block - a sentiment that I am sure would get majority support!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
But there is no reason for me to think that the world would be better off for few chips off my old block - a sentiment that I am sure would get majority support!

You do yourself a disservice George...and remember, modesty and humility - the two most overrated 'virtues'.