HDCD - what's that all about then?
Posted by: Tony L on 21 September 2001
Since landing my shiny new (well one and a half year old) CDX I have come to the conclusion that I own next to no HDCDs. The only one I have actually noticed is a copy of The hissing of summer lawns by Joni Mitchell.
Ok, what is HDCD, and is it actually better?
As someone who owns over 1000 CDs, and whilst I have obviously only played a fraction of that amount on my CDX yet, the fact that I have only noticed one HDCD surprises me (the CDX displays 'HDCD' in the display for a few seconds when you play one). This being the case, and assuming that it is superior, it does not look that good for any future CD compatible technology being seriously taken up by record labels as this one looks like it has largely been ignored.
Comments?
Tony.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Dev B
HDCD - Hardly Does Crap Dude.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Steve Toy
It does improve things - in a round earth kind of way. Recordings in HDCD tend to have more air and space, although dynamics also get a lift.
Mark Knopfler is a big fan.
It's always a nice day for it, have a good one 
Steve
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Tony L
quote:
Mark Knopfler is a big fan.
Can you have it removed?
Tony.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Thomas K
quote:
Can you have it removed?
Tony,
No. HDCD actually clogs up your system's dynamics over time and you need to play a Mark Knopfler CD to get rid of this nasty side effect. Bummer, ey, but luckily you can leave the house when you put the MK disc on.
Thomas
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Tony L
quote:
No. HDCD actually clogs up your system's dynamics over time and you need to play a Mark Knopfler CD to get rid of this nasty side effect. Bummer, ey, but luckily you can leave the house when you put the MK disc on.
Bummer. At least the Densen De-Magic CD sounds pretty cool in a kind of post electronica clicks and cuts kind of way...
Found out that my 7CD Doors box set should be HDCD according to the www.hdcd.com site. Will give it a spin tonight.
Tony.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Thomas K
A lot of CDs don’t actually advertise the fact that they’re HDCD recordings, a famous case in point being the latest Columbia remaster of Brubeck’s “Time Out”. To complicate matters even further, I recently saw Nick Drake’s “Pink Moon” in the shops – on the cover it says HDCD recording, but there’s a little sticker on the cover that says “Not HDCD” … I briefly considered asking someone at the shop what the deal was (naturally, this would have been for a laugh only).
Apparently HDCD is something vaguely similar to what Dolby noise reduction did, except that it’s not meant to reduce hiss, of course, but to inject (or retain?) dynamics. I met a guy once who does some mastering work for Linn, and he had some misgivings about HDCD (unfortunately we didn’t have the time to discuss it further).
In any case, I have about 10, and the recording/mastering quality is usually quite good. I suppose that may be because anyone who’s willing to dish out the licensing fee cares about the sonics enough to closely monitor the entire recording process.
Thomas
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by David Dever
Not all HDCDs will be marked, nor must one encode an entire CD with the process (Nine Inch Nails'
The Fragile, track 4, is a perfect example).
I doubt, however, that you'll find any Boyd Rice re-mastered in glowing HDCD, though.
Dave Dever, NANA
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Alco
I also found out that there are very few HDCD's and not all of 'em do have the HDCD logo on the CD or cover.
From the 460 CD's in my collection I only found 2 till now.
Chris Isaak - "Baja sessions"
and John Lee Hooker - "Don't look back"
Well,we'll see what it does on my s/h (only 1 year old) CDX which will be arriving in....about two hours from now 
Greetings,
Alco
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Martin M
Apparently the Nick Drake re-issues were experimentally mastered in both HDCD and noise-shaped 24 bit. Joe compared the two and greatly preferred the 24 bit. The UK sleevenotes were printed up in error. The same error is not printed on the US versions.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Thomas K
Martin, thanks for that info! I'm sure the shop people would have been stumped.
Thomas
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by David O'Higgins
It is very difficult to know whether HDCD improves the sound because there's nothing to compare it to.
HDCD encoded discs I have include most of Joni Mitchell's back catalogue, Paul Simon's "You're the one" , some of the more recent Emmylou Harris (Wrecking Ball at least) and one of Dire Straits.
I have an impression of a reduction in noise but I feel that this may be at the expense of some loss of tightness in the Bass. Unless all discs were HDCD and the system then set up around it's characteristics, it may be impossible to reach a conclusion. What I can say is that it dos not make CD superior to Vinyl.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by P
I think HDCD is one big bag of Poo.
It's also something which Naim do not themselves promote. It just happens to be included with the processors (or whatever) they use, apparently.
I've run the whole gamut on this one before.
BTW Tony - The Doors box set sounds bloody awfull!! Stick to the vinyl.
Regards
Pete. - NIMDA free. Now.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Rockingdoc
and what about this new track information, does anyone know where it came from? The Shawn Colvin latest CD (Whole New You?) has track title data which appears on the display of my Sony CD walkman, but not on my CDS2. I haven't found any other CDs with this feature yet.
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by David Dever
quote:
Apparently the Nick Drake re-issues were experimentally mastered in both HDCD and noise-shaped 24 bit. Joe compared the two and greatly preferred the 24 bit.
HDCD: analog-to-digital transfer through the Pacific Microsonics encoder box (first pass) at 24-bit (88.2 kHz, 44.1 kHz or higher multiple thereof), then a successive encoding (AES-EBU digital in) to 16-bit/44.1 kHz, where the two least-significant data bits are used for a "companding" process (extrapolated to 20-bit 44.1 kHz information on playback).
Example: Joni Mitchell re-issues
24-bit: analog-to-digital transfer through convertor of choice (dCS, Apogee, et. al) at 24-bit/44.1 kHz, noise-shaped to 16-bit data by onboard DSP at the convertor, or "off-line", that is, during DAW editing.
Example: David Bowie re-issues (recent Abbey Road-mastered set, not the Toby Mountain / Rykodisc re-issues)
Dave Dever, NANA
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by Martin M
Dave conveyed the mastering process more succintly that I could be bothered to. Joe prefered the noise-shaped (from 24 bits down to 16 bits) CD masters to the HDCD equivalent. And what Joe says is what happens (at least on Hannibal records).
There are a couple of professional discs (from Classic records) where they have the same track mastered on HDCD, then Apogee UV-22 and then XRCD. From what I haved heard the latter two better HDCD and there is not much difference between XRCD and Apogee. Having said that, the HDCD encoder (not decoder) has been improved since then and this is what has been used for Paul Simon's latest, but not I beleive the slightly lifeless Joni Mitchell and DOORS re-masters.
Ah the Bowie re-re-re-releases. One sounds terrible, the other merely crap.
Anyone know what the Tom Waits re-mastering is being performaned on?
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by David Dever
Oh, and the Scott Walker solo records (1-2-3-4, others) from the late 60's / early 70's also have been re-issued as HDCD discs (can't remember the re-mastering credits, though).
Dave Dever, NANA
Posted on: 21 September 2001 by SaturnSF
The originals (on Fontana) don't sound bad, btw.
