The Beatles' "Love"

You could make a guess as to Lennon's reactions based on his rather dour and reclusive 70's period when he was going through a fairly troubled time.

The trouble is that his death has tended to fix that image in time. It neglects his earlier phases when he was happy to take part in all sorts of show-biz japes and silliness.

Who knows how he would have grown and changed as a person throuigh the intervening period?

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Shaw:
You could make a guess as to Lennon's reactions based on his rather dour and reclusive 70's period when he was going through a fairly troubled time.

The trouble is that his death has tended to fix that image in time. It neglects his earlier phases when he was happy to take part in all sorts of show-biz japes and silliness.

Who knows how he would have grown and changed as a person throuigh the intervening period?

Of course you're right, people get older, their priorities change, they may even mellow. But can I please be a fly on the wall when Mr Martin Jnr, or some other equally talented person makes the pitch to Van Morrison to 'Love up' his back catalogue ?

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Originally posted by Diode100:
But can I please be a fly on the wall when Mr Martin Jnr, or some other equally talented person makes the pitch to Van Morrison to 'Love up' his back catalogue ?

Make that two flies on the wall :-)

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But can I please be a fly on the wall when Mr Martin Jnr, or some other equally talented person makes the pitch to Van Morrison to 'Love up' his back catalogue ?

..the second word is off

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artist. Because anyone who has lived the artistic life knows how difficult a life it is, how much of one's soul is on the line, how much heartache there can be, and how much elation and deep satisfaction comes from making good art. For such a person to just abandon their hard won standards, to betray their artistic drive, a drive which is every bit as elemental as breathing, and just do something for the money, is absurd.

Admittedly speaking as someone with the artistic ability of an incontinent rhino whilst I appreciate (and possibly admire) the aesthetic sentiment above I think it is just a tad idealistsic to claim that an artist would be almost 'incapable' of betraying their standards purely for acquistive purposes. Many artists manage both, supporting their more creative and challenging work by the production of commercially succesful output. Not the same as 'selling' artistic integrity, but accepting that commercial factors do influence what an artist may choose to do. This may not apply to the hyper-rich McCartneys of the world, although one thing that seems to happen to the very rich is that they get very good at getting richer, and would appear to rather enjoy that.

On the subject of 'Love' I wonder if all the Beatles would appreciate it has brought their music to a new audience, in a fresh and invigorated way that somehow respects but does not deify the originals. I'd never owned a Beatles track until 'Love' came along, and since buying it I'm now more likely to buy or listen to the originals. That would appear to be a result that most artists would be happy to have acheived...and will also swell their coffers!

Bruce

[QUOTE} I feel like it comes primarily from those who are not artists and don't understand the artistic process, the artistic life, and how it feels and what it means to be an artist. Because anyone who has lived the artistic life knows how difficult a life it is, how much of one's soul is on the line, how much heartache there can be, and how much elation and deep satisfaction comes from making good art. For such a person to just abandon their hard won standards, to betray their artistic drive, a drive which is every bit as elemental as breathing [/QUOTE]



Jeff A

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:


Really? Is that what you really believe? That despite their massive wealth, despite their unassailable legacy as uncompromising artists who have demonstrated a deep musical sensibility and a profound love of music, Paul and Ringo will put their name on any old thing just to make even more money? Is that truly what you believe?

Is that truly what you believe Fred?

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Also, this whole project was the brainchild of George Harrison and his friend Guy Laliberté, founder of Cirque du Soleil ... why would George be "spinning in his grave"?Further, according to both George Martin and Yoko Ono, both of whom would likely know,

Is that truly what you believe Fred?

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John would have loved the creativity and experimentation of the project ... he, and the other Beatles, were always interested in creativity and experimentation. In fact, The Beatles were already doing this sort of thing

Is that truly what you believe Fred? Do you really believe that is even comparable to the Love-mega mix?

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in songs like Tomorrow Never Knows, Revolution No. 9, and the mash-up in the long fade of All You Need Is Love, with its Bach/Brandenburg snippets, Greensleeves, and She Loves You woven throughout.

Here's something Harrison's widow, Olivia, said in an interview, explaining George's "last great idea" ...

George instigated a meeting with Paul, George, Yoko, Ringo and Guy. Everyone wanted to have fun, be creative and have someone else be the vehicle for that.

If you listen to the BBC radio documentary on the making of the album, you'll hear repeated accounts of how concerned Paul and Ringo were that this would not be, in fact, just a mercenary project ... really, how could it ever be? They insisted that George and Giles Martin feel free to be as creative as possible. They are both enthusiastically excited about the results, and it had to be musically right before they would sign off ... it had absolutely nothing to do with money.

Right

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I know it's fashionably cynical to believe otherwise, but it just ain't true.

To be frank, this knee-jerk cynical response

Not really knee jerk as I posted very positively when it first came out, admit that I still like it, just that I have changed my opinions as to the artistic merit of the new mix

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All best,
Fred

...and to you Fred. I Love the album but don't think it gets close to the genius of the beatles in any way. Just a very high quality Mash-Up.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
[QUOTE} I feel like it comes primarily from those who are not artists and don't understand the artistic process, the artistic life, and how it feels and what it means to be an artist. Because anyone who has lived the artistic life knows how difficult a life it is, how much of one's soul is on the line, how much heartache there can be, and how much elation and deep satisfaction comes from making good art. For such a person to just abandon their hard won standards, to betray their artistic drive, a drive which is every bit as elemental as breathing

Jeff A[/QUOTE]

When I first read this part of Fred's post I felt a John Belushi moment coming on - a strong desire to smash an accoustic guitar over the head of a sensitive singer song writer. Do you really imagine it is only 'artists'who engage in the day to day struggle to be true to themselves in their work, to use what creativity they have been blessed with, to realise & extend themselves through their labours ?

Are you asking me or Fred ?

My use of the quote with the frown was meant to convey dismay with the quote.

Jeff A

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:
Are you asking me or Fred ?

My use of the quote with the frown was meant to convey dismay with the quote.

Jeff A

Sorry Jeff, no I wasn't asking you, I thought I picked up your meaning correctly, I was lazzily piggy backing off your post to ask Fred.

Appologies for confusion,

Saw the show in Las Vegas last week, in a word, astonishing!

Some notes about the sound system from Lighting and Sound America magazine;

The Sound System.

The design of this massive, complex sound system was driven by a desire to offer a unique experience. "There's no point in doing this," explains Jonathan Deans (designer), "if you can buy the CD, or the 5.1 mix, put it into your home theatre, and have the same experience you can have audibly in the theatre. The same is true if you film it-it's not the same as being there. And one thing we know is the Cirque really cares about their sound-they care about all aspects of their project-not just the visual"

The 32 outputs from the Sinfornia/GigaStudio playback system head into what would have formally been known as an LCS System, but is now called the Meyer Sound "LCS Series". This Matrix 3-based system has 88 inputs, 64 internal busses, and over 280 outputs. Deans says that the flexibility and multiuser access offered by the Meyer LCS Series was critical to the success of the show.

The system is so complex, it's difficult to describe. When questioned in a press conference, Deans says the best way to describe it would be a 25.5 system. "In a minimum layout, it's 25.5," he adds, "because it's layered and it's difference [from 5.1]".

In the end, the 280 outputs from the console drive 6,341 loudspeakers. No, that's no a typo; LOVE has more than 6,000 loudspeakers. "[The system] may look excessive at first glance," explains Jason Pritchard, head of audio for the show, "but after getting involved with it for a while, one soon realizes that it's just what it needs to be. Jonathan (Deans) pushes the limits of what is possible, and that doesnt scare these producers. It fits really well with both The Beatles and Cirque".

Each of the 2,013 seats in the LOVE Theatre has 3 loudspeakers, which were custom-manufactured by Innovox: two in the headrest facing forward the patron's head, and one in the back of headrest facing the row behind. "I split them into 22 [seating] zones," says Deans "so I use 66 outputs to run the seats." All those seat loudspeakers need a lot more testing and maintenance than a standard sound system. "I have 2 technicians working constantly with me to test and repair the seat loudspeakers," says Brad Ward, LOVE's lead audio tech. "We will test each zone daily to be sure it is working and then perform the detailed tests on [every speaker in] selected zones so as to test every seat speaker every 2 weeks". At first, the seat loudspeakers seemed like a gimmick to me, however, after understanding what Deans needed to accomplish in this huge, in-the-round facility, and hearing the result, I'm not sure it would have been possible any other way, and I have come to realize that they are critical to the success of the design.

Even without them, the speaker system for LOVE is massive. I've worked on some complex sound systems but, staring up at the ceiling of the LOVE Theatre at the roughly 300 conventional, mostly Meyer self-powered loudspeakers, I was baffled. When I asked Deans about the speaker layout and configuration, he simply laughs and says, "It's a little bit wacky up there."

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:

My use of the quote with the frown was meant to convey dismay with the quote.

Why the dismay, Jeff?

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Diode100:
Do you really imagine it is only 'artists'who engage in the day to day struggle to be true to themselves in their work, to use what creativity they have been blessed with, to realise & extend themselves through their labours?

No, of course not.

I was speaking specifically about the artistic experience, what it feels like to do that specific thing as one's work.

All best,
Fred

Shayman, yes, I truly believe those things I said.

Regarding my contention that there was precedent in The Beatles' work for LOVE, my point was that they had already done "this sort of thing." That's as far as the comparison goes ... not that what they did was fully comparable, but that there was a clear conceptual precedence.

The point about the money is that, of course, getting paid any amount at all for making music is very desirable, but this isn't the reason one makes the art, it's only a convenient consequence.

Why not have a listen to the BBC documentary and decide for yourself whether it sounds like Paul, Ringo, George and Giles Martin are motivated by money or not.

By the way, I'd still like to know why you think George Harrison would be spinning in his grave.

All best,
Fred

quote:

By the way, I'd still like to know why you think George Harrison would be spinning in his grave.

I didn't realise he had so much to do with it when I wrote that. Didn't know about his links with the artistic and cultural void that is Cirque Du Soleil.

He's gone down in my opinion.

Jonathan

quote:

Originally posted by Shayman:
Didn't know about his links with the artistic and cultural void that is Cirque Du Soleil.

He's gone down in my opinion.

Jonathan

I went to Cirque at the Albert Hall last year. I thought it was wonderful on every level.

I didn't realaise I was moving in such refined and lofty circles here. I feel quite the pleb. Please feel free to evaluate every thing I say about music in the future through that filter.

quote:

I went to Cirque at the Albert Hall last year. I thought it was wonderful on every level.

I didn't realaise I was moving in such refined and lofty circles here. I feel quite the pleb. Please feel free to evaluate every thing I say about music in the future through that filter.

I guess we all have different ideas as to what makes something artistically culturally valid. And that's a good thing. Some people may think a Las Vegas sideshow is high art/culture. Others would just class it as elaborate entertainment spectacular to give rich people something to fill their evenings.

Sorry for the sarcastic/defensive tone of my posts in this thread. Its just I appear to have become a focus of abuse for saying I actually like the album that its meant to be about

Jonathan

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fred simon:
No, of course not.
[QUOTE]

I'll accept that as an appropriate point of clarification. Thank you.

Jeff A