Big speakers on suspended wooden floors... a solution.

Posted by: Ron Toolsie on 20 October 2002

There have been a few posts lately regarding the dilemma of trying to mate a heavy and nominally rigid speaker to flexible flooring with an airspace (aka basstrap) beneath it.

I have been somewhat aware since moving my DBLs from a downstairs room with braced (via floor jacks.. did it myself)flooring with only a couple feet of space between them and the poured concrete foundation to an upstairs room that resides over a 3 car garage that has 15 foot ceilings and has proven to be a very effective bass sump. One remedy already tried with considerable success was to have insulation blown between the floor boards of the room and the sheetrock ceiling of the garage beneath. This alone restored a goodly bit of the thump that had been missing and was rendering the DBLs almost as bass light as the SBLs- no mean feat.
Still... I was plagued with a vague sense of imprecision and lack of control within the lower registers that seemed not to be cured by any amount of tweaking with the Snaxo settins, the mains supply or even 'uprating' the chassis fuses (that offered improvements though in all other areas). If indeed this was a problem with the DBL/floor interface I could either replace the DBLs (not feasible), replace the flooring (not feasible) or modify the interface. I considered going the route of granite slabs, but at $300 a piece and weighing 150 lbs a side, the idea of lugging them upstairs only to have them wobble around on the carpeted surface was hardly enticing. Also having them cut-to-measure meant that if I didn't like them and could carry them back.. there would be no returns, and I would end up with a couple useless grave markers (they were to be sourced from a headstone making company).
Enter the Mana stands... Soundbase 3s I think, that are MUCH lighter than granite and far less likely to sway around. Although I ordered them some time back and have had them around for two weeks, until today I could not install them as there was no way I could physically lift the DBLs onto the stands without either breaking my back or their gasket seals. But with the help of local naim devotee Lee we had this task accomplished within 30 minutes.

Impressions.... the Mana effect really DOES exist with speakers. They are much deeper in the bass now that has also increased in speed to an equal magnitude. The top end is also cleaner, the speakers now cast some semblance of an image and the timing is MUCH better. To me a very similar type of improvement that I got when I upgraded all the gray Snaics to black ones.

I acknowledge that every speaker/floor/room interface is unique and the results not entirely reproducible from system to system. But with the relatively modest price (in terms of the gains offered) and a money-back guarantee there is little to be lost in at least trying out a pair of these stands. What I can say is that they work for ME... Lee also was very impressed by the change- I know this is not wishful thinking on my behalf.
Maybe I should be posting this on the Mana forum, but I am far less likely to change anyones minds there, for that would only be preaching to the converted.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo


Posted on: 20 October 2002 by Steve Toy
My Rega Naos speakers (also on suspended wooden floors)got a boost when I put some Sound Bases underneath them.

I am so pleased with the performance of these speakers now that I'd be up to CDS3/Densen B200XS/B300XS level before I thought about changing them.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.
Posted on: 21 October 2002 by Pierre Isabelle
Ron,

I also have DBL's on a suspended wooded floor and
I also find the bass performance disappointing. Thanks for the tip: I might end up trying the Soundbases too.

What method did you use to lift the DBL's onto the stands?

-- Pierre
Posted on: 21 October 2002 by Ron Toolsie
Pierre...to lift the DBLs onto the Soundbases required the legs, arms and back of one other person- there is no way an average person could do this themselves. Even with the requisite strength, the risk of tilting the DBLs and breaking the gasket seals are too high unless you can embrace them in a bear hug and dead lift them off the floor. Which is why I waited a couple weeks until I could find a volunteer to help me with this task.

Mark V: You should try using floor jacks whether or not you elect to try the Sound bases. These are to be found at any hardware store. Wriggle under the crawl space with a flashlight and jack them up (they are very similar to a car jack) until they firmly brace between the floorboards around the DBLs and the underlying earth. You may have to put a slab of some sort on the earth if it is not concreted over. About 3-4 floor jacks should do the trick. You will notice that when these are installed, the flooring feels a lot firmer to tread upon and the bass energy put out by the DBLs are converted more into sound than into mechanical energy. These are of course not a possiblity if you have a 15-foot-high cavity beneath your flooring as I do.

In my experience... if the bass from DBLs does not sock you in the gut (with the right music of course) there are serious issues in the installation. The Soundbases really are like a component level upgrade- put it this way.. if I had lashed out 5 grand on a new box and got this degree of improvement, I would have thought that money well spent.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo


Posted on: 21 October 2002 by Mark Dunn
Hi Ron.

You wrote:

>or even 'uprating' the chassis fuses (that offered improvements though in all other areas).<

I have looked bleedin' everywhere for 20A, 250V case fuses (standard in the U.S. is for NAP250) 10A rating) and I cant find the buggers anywhere. Even Bussman don't sell them here, according to their web site and RS doesn't exist in the U.S. So, where did you get yours and what type are they etc.

Thanks!

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn†
Posted on: 21 October 2002 by Stewart Cooper
Ron,

This was also my experience with the more humble Shahinian Obelisk -- on Sound Base 1s.

Stewart
Posted on: 21 October 2002 by Arthur Bye
Mark:

Mouser.com has 15 amp fuses (5mm X 20mm) that will work. Don't know about 20 amp

You could also try partsexpress.com

Arthur Bye
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by Greg Beatty
...several threads in the not too distant past where DIY solutions were found to be effective.

See Tim's post

here

- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by Mark Dunn
Thanks guys, I will persevere.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn