What really causes boomy, slow and ill-defined bass?

Posted by: Alex S. on 22 September 2001

Leaving aside room problems which may account for most of it does one a) just blame a badly ported speaker, b) blame a power amp which just can't control the drivers properly, c) blame it on the software: many CDs have a synthed, boomy bass in the first place; vinyl usually seems better, d) other factors or combinations of factors.

How does one produce a fast, tuneful but deep and extended bass? Are subs the answer or is it not possible? Does one have to choose between fast/tuneful but hardly there and slow/boomy but deep and extended. I've not heard Naim's most expensive speakers. Do they solve the problem? What is the budget needed to achieve something acceptable?

Alex

Posted on: 24 September 2001 by garyi

don't know your speakers but if they have holes for spikes then the norderst pulsar poionts can come with a variety of threads otherwise you can just blance them on like with the componants

http://www.hififorsale.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=pulsar.html/SID=1001346371.780887

Posted on: 24 September 2001 by Alex S.

quote:
I'm not quite sure what to make of this point.

Nor was I.

Standwise its like this:

5 Tier SO rack: bottom shelf Lingo on Base platform; empty; empty; Linto on Base platform, Aluminium top plate, 3 Mana Soundframes, LP12. I think this all works.

6 tier Base rack: Top CDS2; 2 32.5, 3 empty, 4 250, 5 CDPS, 6 Supercap.

I like this too but will audition Hutter.

Alex

Posted on: 24 September 2001 by Alex S.

Thanks for the link. 'Spose I could always try large aluminium cones!

Alex

Posted on: 24 September 2001 by Allan Probin

quote:
The bit about 1/3 way into the room being minimum reinforming and 1/4 way into the room being maximum reinforcing is interesting. Do you have a reference or a link for this?

Greg, yes I do have a link for this but unfortunately I'm away from home at the moment, sat at work at twenty past five and I should have been out of here ages ago. When I get home tommorow night I'll try and find it for you. Its avaialbale from the Stereophile web-site but I can probably narrow it down better than that.

If you don't like 1/3rds for minimums, then use 1/5ths, 1/7ths etc. (although with decreasing effect).

Simlarly principle with maximums - use 1/4, 1/6, 1/8ths etc.

Allan

Posted on: 24 September 2001 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Alex S.:
Standwise its like this:
5 Tier SO rack: bottom shelf Lingo on Base platform; empty; empty; Linto on Base platform, Aluminium top plate, 3 Mana Soundframes, LP12. I think this all works.
6 tier Base rack: Top CDS2; 2 32.5, 3 empty, 4 250, 5 CDPS, 6 Supercap.

OK, your whole CD replay chain is on the Base, and it sounds like it's well arranged.

Can't remember if this was discussed before, but have you tried unplugging all sources from the pre-amp except the CDP?

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 24 September 2001 by Greg Beatty

Thanx for pointing me to the Stereophile site.

While searching, I found an article on the Doppler business I asked about a few weeks ago:

http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?382

I searched for the article you were referring to but could not find it. If you are sure you remember that that odd ratios minimize bass and even ratios maximaze bass, that's good enough for me. And I assume the point of interest is the face of the driver.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Posted on: 25 September 2001 by Alex S.

Thanks for all that, apart from the preamp bit. I've just sold the 82 and replaced it with the 32.5. I will buy a 52 as soon as I can but have you heard a 32.5/Supercap? I think its excellent.

Alex

Posted on: 25 September 2001 by Alex S.

Because of the responses I've tried a lot of things over the last day or so - cone and spike placements; foam, speaker and me movements.

As a result, the N805s are really starting to sing. Much of the bass has gone but what's left is fast, tuneful and well-defined. All other round and flat earth qualities have also improved. I'm very pleased.

Removing the blutak was like adding a 52 . Seriously, I'm amazed that the dealer and the maker of my granite stands advised using blutak - have they not listened to spikes/cones. The cones I'm using are just cheap steel things I found in a drawer - the transformation is pretty remarkable.

Also, I'm afraid I'm not giving away the large cones anymore - they work a treat sitting on the Base shelf with the points sited into the cross thread screws of the CDS2 feet. Really.

Thanks again to all for very useful advice.

Alex

Posted on: 25 September 2001 by Allan Probin

Greg,

This is the link to the Stereophile archives that describes (along with other useful stuff) how to determine the minimum and maximum reinforcement points based on the room dimensions:

http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?179

Allan

Posted on: 25 September 2001 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Alex S.:
Because of the responses I've tried a lot of things over the last day or so - cone and spike placements; foam, speaker and me movements.
As a result, the N805s are really starting to sing. Much of the bass has gone but what's left is fast, tuneful and well-defined. All other round and flat earth qualities have also improved. I'm very pleased.
Removing the blutak was like adding a 52.

Alex,

I know you've re-considered a large part of the setup of your system, and you're obviously pleased with the results.

You really now owe it to yourself to reconsider some of the other decisions you've made in the past, such as cabling.

Don't forget you may need to play with you general setup, too, although I guess you've been doing this already.

Congrats.

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 25 September 2001 by Greg Beatty

The article is very interesting. I also found the Principles and Techniques of Speaker Placement from Immedia's site:

http://www.immediasound.com/Speaker_set-up.htm

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Posted on: 25 September 2001 by Alex S.

Stallion - I've e-mailed you. Bad luck.

Martin - I've got good news and bad news. The good news: I've just removed the Chord Cobra interconnect. The bad news: I've replaced it with Linn Silver not Naim. Sorry. But at least its proof that Linn still make something decent.

Alex