New to Naim....but loving it all the same.
Posted by: CraigP on 12 January 2003
I am very new to the world of Naim (about 2 weeks infact), and hence this is my first post, and i would appreciate some advice if possible.
I must start by saying that due to buying my first house a couple of months ago, and having a wedding to pay for in a years time the purse strings are tight, and i am far from an expert on anything audio so please excuse any stupid things i may say.
I entered the world of Naim a couple of weeks ago completely by accident when i whent out to upgrade my 12 year old Technics SUV 470 amp (please dont laugh, i used to think it was quite good). I didnt realise quite how high end the shop was for my budget, and the measly £300 that i had meant that there was nothing there realy suitable on show except for a 2nd hand Arcam Aplha 7 amp, and 8p power amp, which to cut a long story short I whent home with, but found it very flat and unexciting. I took it back and was in the process of getting my money back as nothing else in my budget was available when the salesman remembered the only other thing he had around that price, a Naim Nait 3, "a what" i said, showing my ignorance as i had never heard of Naim before (sorry)." You will either love it or hate" he said, and off i whent to give it a try. And WOW, i havent stopped listening to my CD collection since, hearing things in songs I've never heard before even though i've been listening to them for 10 years, it seems so clear and crisp its fantastic.
Now after borring you with that i will get back to the point, i also upgraded my 10 year old Marantz CD40 that day for a NAD c541i due to the rave reviews it has received (although after learning more about Naim since then, I wonder if i could have picked a used naim one up which would have been better). As i stated earlier i love the sound compared to what i was used to, but after listening to it for 2 weeks i wonder if it lacks depth ( i dont know technical music terms but it almost seems to lack bass, although this could be due to me being used to the Technics amp which i always used to have the bass turned up on ( probably shouldnt have admited that).If i listen to something like Sting, or Pink Floyd its great, but anything heavy such as Nirvana or Dance type music really just isnt very involving. The budget as stated is not high and i can afford arond £1000. The system at the momeant is very basic compared to what other people on this forum seem able to afford. I have the Nad C541i cd player, and Nait 3 alreay talked about. Tannoy 633 profile speakers, Chord Cobra interconnect, 2 x 4m lenghts of NACA5 with Naim plugs, and a quadraspie Q4 rack. What would you good people recommend i might do to my system?, i imagine the speakers might be my priority, but people also talk of pre and power amps (although i know nothing of this). If anybody has an idea of where i should start, your suggestions would be greatly appreciated as buying the little amp has gotten me back into music in a big way.
Thanks in advance
Craig
p.s. I leave the amp switced on as i have noted from the forum this is recommended. However when no cd is playing, when i am close to the speakers i can hear a hiss being emited even with the voulme at minimum, i have tried turning off elecrical items nearby but it seems to be made by the amp, any thoughts anyone??
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by Simon B
craig,
Welcome to the group. I haven't had a Nait 3 so not sure if I can give to much help on that score. However ALL Naim amps hiss, its part of the design. Have you tried moving the speakers about? Once you change somthing in your system quite often you need to do this. Also if the NAC A5 is new it may need buring in. Also the A5 is directional I think the arrows point towards the speakers. I may have got this wrong as my cable has long since lost these marks.
Good luck.
Simon
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by Andrew Randle
Hi Craig,
Congratulations on find a Hi-Fi manufacturer that "does it for you". Naim's equipment is well regarded in terms of:
* electrical safety
* build quality
* producing an involving and fun presentation to the music it is playing
You are correct about leaving the electronics switched on, it maintains optimum operating conditions.
Now for the main piece of advice. This is the most important piece of advice you will receive:
Source First
The performance of your hi-fi is limited by its source of music (in your case the CD player). Buy the best source you can to provide the best sounding music to your already decent amplifier and loudspeakers.
A pre/power amp or bigger loudspeakers will only server to magnify the shortcomings of a cheaper cd player.
So, for just over £1000 you can certainly buy a Naim CD5. A CD5/NAIT3/Tannoy 633 will provide you with wonderful music with far better bass than from your NAD. It will make a great system until you're in a position to upgrade.
One thing, as you love the NAIT 3 then you're in for a real treat when you try or buy the more expensive equipment.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by mathew farley
If it was my money i would get a second hand naim cd 3 or 3.5 cd player (roughly £600) and a second hand high cap (£400 ish), the high cap brings even more clarity and also bigger and better base , when i say better i mean more defined but that all depends on the quality of your speakers
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by CraigP
Many thanks for the advice so far. The Naca5 is only 1 week old, does anybody know how long it takes for this stuff to reach its full potential??
As for the main suggestion it seems i need to get a new source, this is a bit gutting as i obviously rushed things a bit when i was out in the sales upgrading my kit. The Nad is only 2 weeks old so does anybody have any ideas what i should do with it if i want to get a Naim CD player, obviously being on a budget i dont want to loose to much money on this but if you guys think this is the main point of weekness its something i would do. On that note where are the best places to get used Naim CD playes please???
And does anybody know if my Tannoy 633s are any good, for some reason i feel i should change them as i have upgraded everything else, but if they are good speakers bearing in mind my reatively low budget then i will keep them.
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by mathew farley
where did u get the cd player from? as audio-t have a thirty day upgrade policy, if your not happy u can upgrade to something better for up to 30 days(of equal or greater value) these shops want your buisness phone them!! You could also ask them what they would give u for your speakers,(if they do part exchanges) and demo some new ones on your amp and a naim cd player
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by Nuno Baptista
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by mathew farley
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mathew farley:
where did u get the cd player from? as audio-t have a thirty day upgrade policy, if your not happy u can upgrade to something better for up to 30 days(of equal or greater value) these shops want your buisness phone them!! You could also ask them what they would give u for your speakers,(if they do part exchanges) and demo some new ones on your amp and a naim cd player, try to demo them at home (they can sound great in the shop but very different at home) this is extremly important as i have found out at my expence
Posted on: 12 January 2003 by Greg Beatty
I've not heard the Tannoy model that you have, but they are a 'sealed box' design - no ports. This is great for avoiding boom and delivering accurate bass when it is on the recording. But it will not add any and may not do bass as dynamically as a dance club system, for instance. If you are trying to get wompem thumpem bass on a modest budget, you may want a speaker that 'helps' a little in the bass department.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 13 January 2003 by CraigP
Mathew
Thanks for your reply, and sorry to be a while getting back to you. The Nad was purchased from an independant retailer in Bristol. Unfortunately they do not stock Naim, so i dont think i will be able to upgrade through them. My only hope of getting my money back after purchasing the CD player 2 weeks ago is that part of the reason that i decided on the NAD at the time above others like the Marantz i was also looking at, was that the in store display material and shop assistant both indicated that the CD player would play discs recorded with the MP3 format, though this has since turned out to not be the case, i havent spoken to them yet, but as i feel i was miss sold it, i may be able to get a refund. Not doubting anybodies technical knowledge (as i have none on this subject), but is the source really going to improve the depth of sound and bass i feel it may be lacking. I dont think i will be able to try a Naim CD player before i take the NAD back (if they will have it), as i believe i will probably have to get a used one from somewhere like ebay, and i dont want to go from the frying pan to the fire, and spend at least double on another CD player in the process.
Thanks
Craig
Posted on: 13 January 2003 by mathew farley
The naim cd player will give u an improvement but i think the biggest problem is with your speakers i would try the mission m73 (£200)or m74 (£300) they are floor standers(no need for stands) mission speakers generaly produce a fast sound with good bass although i havnt heard these models ive always been impressed with mission speakers. And also be wary of advise u get from retailers as ive bought hi-fi in the past on retailers (and magazine) recomendations that i didnt like (dynaudio speakers yuck!), most good hi-fi retailers let u borrow gear , which is definatly the best way to go
Posted on: 17 January 2003 by AussiePete
Craigp,
the best thing is for you to sit back and enjoy your system for a month or two and then seriously evaluate it. It will take this long for it all to burn in.
Regards,
Pete
Posted on: 17 January 2003 by Matthew T
If you don't like the NAD see if you can get your money back.
Then go see if you can listen to a CD3 and make your mind up. It's always a good idea to listen to a range of stuff before you buy.
Get the CD sorted out first then worry about the speakers.
Matthew
Posted on: 17 January 2003 by greeny
quote:
but is the source really going to improve the depth of sound and bass i feel it may be lacking.
If you are used to a sound through an amp with the bass control turned up you will certainly find the Bass lean in comparison, Changing your CD player to a CD3 or 5 will not solve this. However once you acclimatise to the new sound balance you will appreciate the bass quality rather than the amount of bass present, this is much more important. Naim is renowned for its fast controlled bass, you will start hearing bass lines and attack of notes and drum beats that were previously a dull thud.
Now for the advice. If you can't get any money back on your CD player then I would do nothing for a month at least. Let your system settle down, then you can appreciate its strengths (and shortcomings). At this point reevaluate what you think you are missing. One thing that might be worth playing with a bit during this period is speaker positioning which can have a huge effect on bass output
If you do eventually decide to change your CD player Loot is a good source of S/h CD3's CD3.5's and CD5's
Posted on: 17 January 2003 by CraigP
Thanks for all your advice, i borrowed a CD5 from a local dealer and the difference was incredible, such that i've decided to purchase one and am currently awaiting delivery, i was tempted by the CDX, but even 2nd hand they are £500 more, and seem difficult to track down.
One thing that i would like to bring to peoples attention (which is slightly embarassing, but not entirely my fault), was a point that the salesman made when i was buying the CD5, i had talked to him previously about speaker cable, and he asked if i has got this sorted, i replied yes, and that i had gotten some NACA5, made up for me with Naim connectors form Audio Excellence (hope i can mention their name). At this point he said that when i got home i should double check the wiring (he kindly drew me a nice diagram for the way the ridges on the cable should run etc) as he knew of at least 1 other person who had also got NACA5 from Audio excellence, and they had soldered the wires opposite to how they should be. When i got home it was the first thing i checked, and low and behold one cable was correct, but the other had the pos/neg opposite to how it should be. 20 minutes, and a bit of wiring later, and the sistem was sounding 100% better than before(no surprise when your correctly wired i suppose), with more bass and depth (what i was originally lacking), although i know the majority of you will be far more clever than me and have this sorted, i do wonder how many other people there may be who like me took their speaker cable home from the shop and plugged it in without checking, having imagined the professionals (?) would have done their job properly.
Anyway, 2 weeks time and i should have my lovely CD5, then it will be on to either a new pair of speakers, or a 90.3 power amp, any suggestions anybody??
Regards
Craig
Posted on: 17 January 2003 by i am simon 2
Craig
CD5, Nait 3 into the tannoys
What should you do next?
Listen, Grin, buy more music, Grin some more.
You have gone up a step or two in the world of HiFi, there is so much more to hear and enjoy before you need to do much else. The upgrading bug is a difficult thing to fight when you begin to see these types of improvments, but there is often no need to do very much for a while.
My next step would be a used hicap on the CD5 or used flatcap on the Nait, but it does not need to be done for a while.
For the money, I think Naits are one of the best value Hifi gems.
Enjoy
Simon
Posted on: 17 January 2003 by MarkEJ
Welcome to the collective...
Lots of good stuff in this thread. I have a feeling I might be quite near you geographically, so if you want to listen a CD5 or need any other help, drop me a mail.
Best;
Mark
PS just noticed that InfoPop (may they sail to perdition) have removed the email links from the latest version of this benighted software... its mark[remove_this]@sbc.dircon.co.uk
Posted on: 17 January 2003 by Simon B
Hi Craig,
Glad you got everything sorted. I think you may have the the HI-FI bug though as there appears to be a bit of a change in you from the first post... I.E £300 budget and you blow £1.2K in the last post and are asking for more ideas!
Personally I think you should enjoy what you have for a bit. But If you must spend some more money try and concentrate it near the source.
So a flatcap2 to put on your CDP / AMP would be a good idea. Note that the NAP 90 is not that well though of and a old 110 / 140 is considered better. I think using a 140 with a converted Nait is not a good use of funds as it wont really show what a 140 can do. Its just a temporary solution. So unless you your speakers are screaming out for more power spend on the source and keep the Nait.
Simon
