On the nature of love

Deane, I agree with you about the kind of love you mention. If you have children this kind of 'unconditional love' may become clearer still.

The 'romantic love' so valued by Western society is more to do with sexual desire, infatuation and regression to babyhood than with love. The high rate of breakups and divorces is, I believe, testament to this.

Regards
Steve M

Very good book on the subject

'The Art of Loving' - Erich Fromm

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
The 'romantic love' so valued by Western society is more to do with sexual desire, infatuation and regression to babyhood than with love. The high rate of breakups and divorces is, I believe, testament to this.
Steve M

Exactly; it's just a term applied to a mating ritual and a psychological state resulting therefrom.

Word known to all men, as Mr Joyce has put it.

In the last analysis, there's no such thing.

EW

Love is wanting to be with the person you love.
Love sees only beauty and goodness in somebody.
Love can forgive and owns nobody.
Love nourishes both partners.
Love is having fun together.
Love is a warm feeling.
Love lasts a lifetime.
Love holds no grudges.
Love needs no words.
Love is being silly.
Love is in a glance.
Love is in a smile.
Love is protective.
Love is accepting.
Love is making-up.
Love is learning.
Love is knowing.
Love is sharing.
Love is respect.
Love is caring.
Love is quiet.
Love is real.
Love is love.
Love, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:
In the last analysis, there's no such thing.

No such thing as love?

I can't agree with you there.

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
No such thing as love?

I can't agree with you there.

OK what is it then?

Think you'll find it's just a psychological quirk that causes us to "nurse" babies (or "raise" if you like).

There's some amorous psychology surrounding the mating business and some "fidelity" w.r.t. the female who has borne one's progeny.

It is that in psychology which leads to altruism, I suppose.

My point was that 'love' is not merely confined to 'romantic love'. Personally, I believe that love is one of the fundamental forces of the universe. However, this is a spiritual view and, as such, is beyond 'proof'.

However, even if one adopts the position that love is a 'psychological quirk', that's not to say that it doesn't exist or that there's 'no such thing', is it?

Steve M

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik H:
You know love, when you feel it in the gut, not the loin! That is Lust!

Fredrik

Heh! Bring it on...!

EW

Sex is a bonus all right. Lovemaking even more so.

But who would be willing to lay down their life for a fuck?

so,
where in the 'love' stakes do 'respect' and 'trust' fit?

Oh no! Not another victim of unrequited love?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
so,
where in the 'love' stakes do 'respect' and 'trust' fit?

Why do you ask?

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
Oh no! Not another victim of unrequited love?

Who me? I gave up that unrequited business in my youth.

"Pangs of despised love..." (and the law's delay too, for that matter...)

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
Oh no! Not another victim of unrequited love?

Who me?

Are you psychic?

No unrequited love here (Your Honour). Nope, all is well in loving and being loved land. Distance is a bugger though.

Is there a difference between loving and being in love ?

Yes

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
Yes

Is the difference more than just the level of intensity and the perception of its depth?

Because in some cases where 'respect' and 'trust' are lost - away goes the love that was there that accompanied these things...and may well have been there partly because of such emotions... IMVHO

Perhaps love is the emotion and the trust and respect merely evidence of its power to affect behaviour?

Possibly.

I once had a discussion with some friends about 'what is love?'. After about an hour of debate and a few beers we gave up trying to define it!

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:

quote:

Originally posted by 7V - in response to the question "Is there a difference between loving and being in love ?":

Yes

Is the difference more than just the level of intensity and the perception of its depth?

Yes, I believe so, Deane.

For being 'in love' think Romeo and Juliet. Think any of a thousand movies or pop songs.

Now think of a mother's love for her child or a child's love for its mother or how you might send 'healing' to a sick child (or a dog or cat if it's easier).

Think Jesus. There's another wonderful book (other than "The Art of Loving" by Fromm) called "Living with the Himalayan Masters". It's not about Christianity but in it one particular enlightened Swami is introduced to the New Testament and reports that, in his understanding, Christianity is the triumph of love over suffering. It's in this sense that I say 'think Jesus'.

If you were an enlightened Master, without any fears or needs, who could empathise with and completely understand the feelings and actions of a person who came to you for help, might you feel love for that person?

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
Perhaps love is the emotion and the trust and respect merely evidence of its power to affect behaviour?

Yes, perhaps.

I have the clear sense on reading your posts in this thread that you already know and understand exactly what I'm trying to say.

And in case anyone should think that I think myself to be anything other than someone who has barely taken his first step towards climbing a mountain, let me add ...

IMVHO (of course).

I'm deeply worried about all this "suffering".
But then S&M has never been my bag.

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
I'm deeply worried about all this "suffering".
But then S&M has never been my bag.

I'm deeply concerned about all this "worry".
"If you worry, will it change the future?" - quote from David Caradine's 'Kung Fu'

The 'ending suffering' thing is mostly a feature of Buddhism and Eastern religions. It's an alternative to 'gaining happiness'. Here of course, we all know that the answer to both is to upgrade.

Steve M

Me "worry"? I often advise people not to worry since it will not alter the future any more than prayers ever will. In fact one might make a decent case for the obverse. Poor black people are deniably one of the most religious groups on earth and prone to much prayer and church attendance. For all the good it does them. Had the missionaries never reached them many would still be living in paradise in comparison with the hell they are suffering now. Their gods seem to suffer from a love for money over their own welfare. It is a very one-sided love IMHO.

Upgrading? Shush! Walls have ears.