Is the Recession Exaggerated
Posted by: Mick P on 31 July 2009
Chaps
I sometimes think that people like whinging for the sake of it and this so called recession has had people moaning in droves.
Some people must be a lot better off because inflation is peanuts and interest rates are low and housing is becoming cheaper to afford in real terms.
Then everyone bleats about the unemployed.
I have freelanced since 2004 as a Procurement Consultant and did pretty good out of it because times were good. My last contract expired in November last year and as I was just one month away from my sixtieth birthday, I decided to retire. My wife was going to retire in March this year. She has been constantly postponing her retirement and has now agreed to carry on working for another 12 months.
I therefore decided to re enter the job market. I am an old man of sixty so you would think I had no chance.
I put myself on the books of 3 agencies on the 30th June and had two interviews last week. I had two job offers as a result this week and am earning precisely the same as this time last year.
In other words it has taken exactly one month to land a choice of two jobs at last years rates and this confirms my belief that this country still has a load of opportunities and that getting on your bike is still valid.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by Mick P
Malky
How long do you think it is going to take to get the £75bn back plus we are still under righting their risk.
Whether you like it or not, there is going to be massive expenditure cuts so all I am saying in a nice way is position yourself so as not to become a casualty of it.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by deadlifter
So the recession is not exaggerated then,
end of topic
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
One simple way of reducing the debt is to induce inflation.
You heard it here first...
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by The Strat (Fender)
When the country is in recession the impact can be over exaggerated.
When the country is experiencing boom things can seem to be better than they actually are.
Fender (Strat)
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by Steve O
quote:
Originally posted by avole:
Apologies, Steve, for inadvertently dragging you back in!
avole,
No apology necessary. I should have stayed well away.
Regards,
Steve
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
We know that the chances are that Cameron will be the next Prime Minister and we all know that we have a total debt of £75bn to clear.
Perhaps he'll pay it off out the MP's expenses budget.
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by 555
quote:
there are going to be cuts in public services ... so all I am saying in a nice way is position yourself so as not to become a casualty of it.
If there is a major outflow of staff from sectors such as the NHS & state education could there be many casualties?
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by Jonathan Gorse
Frankly I found it impossible to get too excited by the politicians expenses scandal which might hve cost the taxpayer £10m when the banks have taken us for £75bn and are set to pay themselves yet again bonuses wildly out of step with the rest of commercial enterprise.
Personally I find that nauseating.
Jonathan
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by QTT
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Gorse:
...the banks have taken us for £75bn and are set to pay themselves yet again bonuses wildly out of step with the rest of commercial enterprise.
It seems to me that you live in the 19th century. Wake up man or take a course in business or economics.
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by SC
Ah......Spoken like a wbanker...!
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Rockingdoc
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Malky
we are still under righting their risk.
Mick
I assume you don't write your own job applications. This isn't a typographic error, but rather, shows complete lack of understanding of meaning. How on earth are employers taken in by you?
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Mick P
Lloyds is still being underwritten
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Rockingdoc
Sorry, I forgot the
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Mick P
Rockingdoc
People like you are just not worth bothering with. I do not mind discussion even with fools but uninformed people like you just take the biscuit.
Best we ignore each other from now on.
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by SC
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by BigH47
A Dr vs an over-inflated postman who would you choose?
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by OscillateWildly
Postman, I see him more often. The Internet is there if I am ill. To smiley, or not to smiley, that is the question.
Cheers,
OW
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Mick P
Frank
Many thanks for your support.
I cannot really blame any UK politician for the current situation other than Brown who sold our gold reserves at the most stupid of times and also he racked up enormous debt when he was Chancellor.
The blame lies squarely with the idiots in America who took on sub prime mortgages. You really do have to be a complete moron to take on a debt than is more than the value of your house in an over hyped housing market that is due for a fall. The mortgages often had punitive clauses for non payment as well as built in rate rises. These people are the ones we should be blaming and they all need lessons in how to read and how to think. Blaming banks is a bit of an easy option, they only lent to people who asked for it and in a free market that treats us as adults, that is how it should be.
Also in the UK, I read somewhere that the average credit debt per family excluding mortgages is £9000.00 and the blame for that lies squarely with the people who took it out. If they can pay it then fine, but it is a bit rich them complaining that they cannot make the payments when something like a job loss or rate hike happens. Any sensible person builds that into a contingency plan.
I think that overall, most governments, including Brown have handled the situation fairly well and have averted a major disaster.
I still think internet charges in Spain are way OTT.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Musicman21
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Frank
Many thanks for your support.
I cannot really blame any UK politician for the current situation other than Brown who sold our gold reserves at the most stupid of times and also he racked up enormous debt when he was Chancellor.
The blame lies squarely with the idiots in America who took on sub prime mortgages. You really do have to be a complete moron to take on a debt than is more than the value of your house in an over hyped housing market that is due for a fall. The mortgages often had punitive clauses for non payment as well as built in rate rises. These people are the ones we should be blaming and they all need lessons in how to read and how to think. Blaming banks is a bit of an easy option, they only lent to people who asked for it and in a free market that treats us as adults, that is how it should be.
Also in the UK, I read somewhere that the average credit debt per family excluding mortgages is £9000.00 and the blame for that lies squarely with the people who took it out. If they can pay it then fine, but it is a bit rich them complaining that they cannot make the payments when something like a job loss or rate hike happens. Any sensible person builds that into a contingency plan.
I think that overall, most governments, including Brown have handled the situation fairly well and have averted a major disaster.
I still think internet charges in Spain are way OTT.
Regards
Mick
Excellent gentlemen ! One of the most engaging and informative padded cell topics for a while lively debate from start to finish....some strong views on the effects of the recession as one would expect, end of 2010 IMO before we will see any real change.
"Sub Prime Mortgages Stateside" spot on Mick there nail on the head !
Internet charges here in Turkey also way OTT !! ..Do we need more competition and choice of providers to drive costs down ???
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
The situation in the States was actually even worse than Mick indicates. Loans would be made at an interest rate of X, but with repayments at a lower rate. The "unpaid" interest was added to the loan, and at the end of a set period, the discounted interest rate stopped. This meant that not only would repayments rise, but the principal sum borrowed was now bigger, so even larger payments where now due. This kind of lending is illegal in the UK.
"NINJA" loans - No Income, No Job, No Assets...
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Musicman21
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
The situation in the States was actually even worse than Mick indicates. Loans would be made at an interest rate of X, but with repayments at a lower rate. The "unpaid" interest was added to the loan, and at the end of a set period, the discounted interest rate stopped. This meant that not only would repayments rise, but the principal sum borrowed was now bigger, so even larger payments where now due. This kind of lending is illegal in the UK.
"NINJA" loans - No Income, No Job, No Assets...
"NINJA"......TOTAL MADNESS may as well perform Hari-Kari !
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by OscillateWildly
Government set up framework and regulators. Along with regulators, either incompetent or ignored/allowed the situation for the tax and the 'feel good' factor.
Certain lenders - look what they will let us do, we can make a killing, what consequences, not us, we're too good.
Ratings Agencies - incompetent or happy to take the money for the rating.
Certain borrowers - look what they will let us do, we can get it now, no need to save up, what consequences, not us.
Cheers,
OW
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Malky
quote:
The blame lies squarely with the idiots in America who took on sub prime mortgages. You really do have to be a complete moron to take on a debt than is more than the value of your house in an over hyped housing market that is due for a fall. The mortgages often had punitive clauses for non payment as well as built in rate rises. These people are the ones we should be blaming and they all need lessons in how to read and how to think. Blaming banks is a bit of an easy option, they only lent to people who asked for it and in a free market that treats us as adults, that is how it should be.
Impeccable logic Mick, until you factor in that capital has to continually find an outlet for surplus to avert overproduction and stagnation. It was your heroes, Thatcher and Reagan, who dramatically cut wages leading to a reduced spending power amongst the manufacturing classes, which meant effectively that capital had a major problem in finding enough people who could afford to buy what was being created.
This was 'solved' by a huge expansion in credit to working people which has largely facilitated the most recent booms. However, this also led to a largely unsustainable economy based on the never- never. You cannot blame people who, at one point, could never have afforded the credit to buy their own homes taking advantage of an undreamt of opportunity. You are forever advocating the seizure of opportunity.
The banks may be short-sighted but they are not stupid. They were well aware that they were selling mortgages to people who could never afford to pay for them. They simply repackaged the debt and sold it on to a third party until, last September, it all came tumbling around their ears.
Where then does the responsibility lie?
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by northpole
quote:
Where then does the responsibility lie?
With the tax payers obviously - at least that's how it appears from the outside.
Peter
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by gone
Malky - very well put. I have been searching for a riposte, but you sum it up nicely. Unfortunately
We're the same uneducated morons that tend to use smileys....
