Dedicated Mains In the U.S.

A decent "Sparks" will charge about £70 over here ($90?). He'll simply take a new feed off the existing mains input through a 40amp box to your desired location.

Mandatory for NAIM gear, IMHO!!

Nice President, by the way (when can WE have one?)...

Nice Pres? "Meet the new boss...same as the old boss." - R. Daltry

Thanks Mike.

So if I am interpreting correctly....

The electrician takes the Mains coming into the house and splits it to its own fusebox, then runs it to an outlet near the kit?

So in terms of labor and materials we are talking

- Electrician to perform the work
- New Fusebox
- New lines routed to my kit location
- New outlet(s)

Can I add as many wall outlets as needed, then ditch my wiremold? Then add powerlines!!!!

Can anyone in the US, who has completed a dedicated spur, ballpark a total figure for the entire scope of work?

Are we talking $1000? $500? round numbers are fine.

quote:

Posted Thu 09 April 2009 19:24 Hide Post
Thanks Mike.

So if I am interpreting correctly....

The electrician takes the Mains coming into the house and splits it to its own fusebox, then runs it to an outlet near the kit?

So in terms of labor and materials we are talking

- Electrician to perform the work
- New Fusebox
- New lines routed to my kit location
- New outlet(s)

Can I add as many wall outlets as needed, then ditch my wiremold? Then add powerlines!!!!

Present and correct, Cap'n.

NANA used to have a US guide for this but I can't see it on the new website - maybe Dave Dever can dig it out for you?

JIm

I don't think it needs to involve a separate fuse (or circuit breaker) box.

Assuming you have an empty space in your electrical panel, it would involve running a wire from that panel to the location of the outlet and installing a new circuit breaker in the box.

It would probably be best to install a 20 amp circuit which requires (at least) 12 gauge wire (typically yellow). Some people 'upgrade' to 10 gauge wire (typically orange) as it is rated for higher amperages. Ideally the run would have no splices.

The main difficulty in doing this is getting the wire from the circuit breaker box to the outlet location. That could be easy (e.g., unfinished basement with panel right under outlet location) or hard (house on slab with no attic and breaker box on other end of house). Cost would depend on this as well as location. $500 is probably a reasonable guess.

Electrically there is no problem with having more outlets on the circuit though my understanding is that using one outlet is the preferred set-up for Naim.

Hope this helps.

quote:

Can anyone in the US, who has completed a dedicated spur, ballpark a total figure for the entire scope of work?

I have had this done three times, in three different places. The first and most expensive was with a new pole-top transformer, new copper wiring from the transformer to a dedicated copper bus-barred junction box, and then some 60A lines from there to the plugs feeding the stereo. This came to several thousand USD.

More recently I have had just a 'clean junction box' installed of a separate breaker panel on the main box, and then some 10 gauge wiring pulled to the plug feeding the stereo. This was closer to $400 USD. This did not include the cost of installing the balanced power transformer and running two very heavy earth spikes to it.

PCStockton, I'm a little closer, just up I-5 in Seattle. I'm fairly handy, so I installed a dedicated circuit myself. It's fairly simple if you have an exposed crawl space or basement that you can run the new wire through, and if you have "room" in your breaker panel (the electrical distrubution panel). I used 12-3 Romex cable, and hooked it up to an unused 20 amp breaker and was good to go. And yes, you can have as many wall outlets as you want as long as the number of black boxes in your rack don't exceed the capacity of the breaker.

The cost though will depend on how hard it is to get the new wire from your equipment to the distribution panel. A residential electrician in Seattle would charge about $50 to $75 / hour, parts are minimal. It took me about 2 hours to do the work, and about $5 bucks worth of parts.

And remember, when working with electricity, just don't touch two things at once.

Good luck.

Tom

Tom

Well there you go! Two different methods for installing dedicated circuits, driven by the quality of the system. Ron, your system is several rungs up the ladder from mine, as is the quality of your deidicated circuit.

Tom

quote:

I don't think it needs to involve a separate fuse (or circuit breaker box).

Yes it does because there is an advantage.
Not much talk about a dedicated circuit on audio forums because many homes (including mine)
already have one.

There was a misplaced parentheses in my earlier response. What I meant to say was that I don't think there needs to be a separate fuse box or circuit breaker box. I do agree that a dedicated circuit is a great investment.

PC,

Don't do this on your own, definitely should be done by your electrician. You can get a few quotes to make sure your getting fair pricing.

The ultimate cost really depends upon where your circuit box is in relation to the room your putting the outlets in, in terms of time/labor spent setting this up.

They'll check you box to see if you have any free breakers, but probably best to use a small separate box pulled off of your main or another accessory box.

You should have 20 amp circuit and your outlets should be set up "in phase." Always add more than you need it's cheaper than having to have them come back for the small incrental cost. Use a heavier grade outlet, not the standard home ones and you do not need the orange medical grade outlets.

The outlets have a 90 degree portion at one of the insets and you really need to snap the connection in. Also ask for thicker gauge wires (size 10).

I spent about $325 for my dedicated circuitry and put in 2 quads. My utility room was located behind the wall where my kit is so no real work other than running the conduit etc... no fishing etc.... required.

It's worth it.

PS: adding the PLs at that time really makes sense.

Wonderful.... Thanks everyone!

Gary.... I fully agree. While it seems like something one can do on their own, I would not attempt it. I would surely kill myself. I have a friend who is an electrician and can probably be hired for beer and cookies.

I was wondering if any of these processes involved talking with the power company, or needing permits of any kind. Sounds straight forward enough to me.

I have an unfinished "ceiling" in my basement, with direct access to the floor below my kit. Breaker box is down there as well. If there is no need for a "new" line from the outside and everything takes place from my existing circuit box, I am going to proceed asap.

Ron's method, while most likely ideal, is not in the cards for me. And to be honest, his method was what I assumed HAD to happen.

So what is the final say on the "new fusebox"... do i need one or not?

Or am I simply following Chris and TFE?

thanks again everyone, Very valuable info.

Sparky will know what is required, but assuming you are located in the city of Portland, a permit is required: http://www.portlandonline.com/bds/index.cfm?c=41031&. That said, after following a few links, it looks like there is a program that allows licensed electrical contractors to do basic work without receiving a permit. See URL=http://www.oregonbcd.org/programs/minorlabel/el_minor_label.html#scope for information on that.

It sounds like the install should be very straightforward.

Chris.... Many thanks. You even went to the trouble of researching it for me!!!!

Kick ass.

I'd be surprised if you need a permit for basic home eectrical work, but Portland may be different.

I'd spend the few bucks and have your electrician pull of the mains and go to another box for your kit. It won't add much to the cost. Luckily you have the unfinished ceilin so it will be easy to run the conduit.

Shouldn't take very long at all.

Permits? we don' need no stinkin' permits!

Hi gary1(US),

Regarding
>>and you do not need the orange medical grade outlets.<<

The advantage of the orange (or similar) outlets is that they have an isolated ground. This means that the sparky can connect the ground wire from the new wall sockets directly to the ground point outside the building, i.e. you'll get a 'cleaner' ground since you're not connecting the ground wire to the shared (read: noisy) grounding bus-bar inside the distribution panel.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

I have done it twice. The first time was a single circuit for $300 using the house ground. The second time was a pair of dedicated circuits with a pair of dedicated three rod earth grounds, one for the power amps and one for the preamp and front end components, for about $2,000. I highly recommend the dedicated earth grounds in connection with the dedicated circuit. A clean ground is hard to beat.

Most home electricians think this is crazy. I contacted a commercial contractor and they sent the guy they use to service the hospitals, all of which use earth ground grids. This electrician was also a ham radio operator and understood the importance of the clean ground to low noise. Driving six 8' rods flush to ground level is not a do it yourself project at my house.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dunn:
Hi gary1(US),

Regarding
>>and you do not need the orange medical grade outlets.<<

The advantage of the orange (or similar) outlets is that they have an isolated ground. This means that the sparky can connect the ground wire from the new wall sockets directly to the ground point outside the building, i.e. you'll get a 'cleaner' ground since you're not connecting the ground wire to the shared (read: noisy) grounding bus-bar inside the distribution panel.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

Mark,

I am aware of this and discussed this issue with my dealer (JS) whose avery knowlegeable about all of this electrical stuff. He would be in ageement with your statement.

His experience has been that it can be an expensive proposition with sinking the grounds etc...

In my case the grounds were on the other side of the house so not as easy as what I chose or to sink additional grounds.

Hi gary1,

Just anecdotally, when I lived in Memphis, TN (yuck!) I installed a dedicated ground rod. I was feeling a bit lazy on the day, so I got my wife to bang it into the ground while she stood on a step ladder with a 10lb short-handled sledge hammer. I had visions of Stan and Ollie where Ollie says "when I nod my head, you hit it."

Just so everyone doesn't think I'm a complete bastard, it's important to know that my wife is from International Falls, Minnesota which is regarded as the coldest town in the contiguous U.S. (and most of Alaska too). Gary will likely know the 'Falls reputation, and will also know that them thar northern girls are corn fed, and have muscles in places where most people haven't even got places.

One time when she was bar-tending in Fargo, North Dakota a guy tried to jump the bar with the intention of stabbing her with a broken bottle, but she got him in the nuts with a cattle prod first. I love my wife!

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

I'd talk with Dave Dever at NaimUSA if considering running a separate ground line for the hifi. Seems like they've had problems with this in the past. A fellow mistakenly sold his Naim system due to poor sound which was traced after the fact to a poor quality separate dedicated ground IIRC.

Note this is not the same thing as installing a new dedicated circuit which uses the existing home's ground for the new circuit. Btw, cost in N.C for a licensed electrical firm installing a single dedicated line to the existing breaker box is $250.

quote:

Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
NANA used to have a US guide for this but I can't see it on the new website - maybe Dave Dever can dig it out for you?

JIm

From the old NANA site:

"System Setup - Should I purchase a power conditioner or surge suppressor for my Naim Audio system?"

Many systems, in our experience, do not perform anywhere near the ultimate level of performance due to poor conditions regarding the system's electrical set-up. Surprisingly, just a few minutes of extra attention to the AC mains power for your system can unleash a great deal of extra music, at virtually no additional cost!

DEDICATED CIRCUIT
Do you have enough power to feed your system?

The power supplies of Naim Audio equipment are designed to be among the largest, noise-free and most stable in the industry. You should provide your system with the most power possible--excess electrical capacity is important to making a great sound.

It is ideal that the system have its own separate circuit and circuit breaker.

Your electrician should install a dedicated 15 A circuit, complete with new wire, directly to your system. One dual (2) socket hospital-grade outlet is all that is necessary.

The advantage of a dedicated circuit is that your system will not be sharing power directly with other appliances in your house on the same circuit. Tremendous distortion of the power wave may occur if the circuit shares power with a refrigerator or personal computer (or worse, a humidifier or heater). This can reduce the system's performance considerably.
NOTE: Unlike many systems that use vacuum tubes or class-A circuit topologies, your Naim system uses very little quiescent power. The constant power demand of a Naim system is very small when played at normal levels, this advantage reflected in the extended longevity of Naim Audio equipment.

Your Naim components will likely outlast other designs by a large margin!

Outlet Strips
Naim Audio North America strongly recommends, for use with our equipment, a dedicated outlet strip, without circuit breakers, switches, fuses, indicator lights or other passive components which will reduce a system's performance.

We recommend the following items:

CablePro Noisetrapper NANA 8-Outlet Power Strip <see website for current price>
available from <link removed--see NaimUSA website> Eight industrial-spec grade, high-copper-content brass outlets for better conductivity
Non-magnetic, aluminum-alloy chassis
Cascade parallel wiring for hot and neutral connections
Star-grounded to minimize noise
12-gauge silver-plated oxygen-free-copper wiring
Hardwired, shielded power cord



Brooks/Wiremold L10320 (6' cable, <see website for current price> / L10321 (15' cable, <see website for current price> Outlet Strip
available from your local Naim dealer Nine panel-mount brass outlets
Non-magnetic, aluminum-alloy chassis
Cascade parallel wiring for hot, neutral and ground connections
12-gauge copper wiring with crimp connections
6' or 15' stranded-copper power cord with molded plug



Sequencing
The order in which the components are plugged into the strip is critical. If you plug the power amplifier into the strip closest to the end where the strip power cord enters, and work your way back to the source component, you will get a much better sound. Here are some examples:

A simple system:

NAP 150x Power Amplifier
FLATCAP2x Power Supply for NAC 112x Preamplifier
CD5x Compact Disc Player
Other sources, turntable, etc., in any order

An SL2 active system:

NAP 250 Power Amplifier
NAP 250 Power Amplifier
HICAP2 Power Supply for SNAXO 242 Active Crossover
SUPERCAP2 Power Supply for NAC 282 Preamplifier
XPS2 Power Supply for CDX2 Compact Disc Player
In some cases, it may be preferable to plug the power amplifier directly into the wall socket.

Because of the advantage of being able to control the order in which the components are plugged in, using a dedicated outlet strip is far superior to plugging all system components directly into a quad or double quad receptacle. Here are a couple more tips:

Keep power wires separated from signal wires--do not bunch your power wires together, but keep them flowing as gracefully as possible (electricity does not flow effeciently around sharp corners and bends).
Use only the Naim Audio power cords as supplied--they easily outperform even the most expensive power cords, and certainly any average cord.
POWER CONDITIONERS
Our customers often inquire about the purchase of a power conditioner suitable for a Naim Audio system.

You absolutely do not need one--every power conditioner we know of reduces musical performance dramatically.

Do not be fooled--power conditioners will make your system worse in every case. (A few will make one area a little better while ruining fifty other areas--that is the best case we have seen!)

If the power is dirty, you can't improve it with a power conditioner without taking away some of the remaining quality and punch.

LIGHTNING
No power strip or conditioner can protect your system from lightning, your system's worst enemy.

Lightning raises the voltage on the ground side of the line, and can not be protected against--except by unplugging the system during a storm.

DISCLAIMER
We will not guarantee the performance of the system with any power conditioner, line conditioner or computer-grade outlet strip.

If you are not happy with your Naim system, please first try the recommended power setup described above. You should also refer to our SYSTEM SETUP GUIDE."

Dave,

This is all VERY valuable information.

Should be a sticky....

thanks for the help. I copy and pasted this to a friend and says he sees exactly what we are trying to achieve and can do it easily.

He thought the hospital grade plugs was a good touch. He would recommend that himself.

-p

Glad this helped.

The only change to this advice is possibly the use of a good industrial or commerical-grade outlet vs. a hospital-grade outlet.

Dave Dever gave us this update a while back stating hospital-grade outlets tend to have a spark suppression coating since they were intended for use in institutions along side tanks of oxygen. The commericial-grade outlets give you hospital-grade quality of construction (tight-fitting blades) without the coating which could possibly distort the signal.

When upgrading my outlet I visited the outlet manufacturer's website and checked specs. Since spark suppression is normally considered a benefit it's always listed on the spec sheets so no mention guarantees you've picked the right model;-)