Active for the hell of it?

My impression is that the new black-face amps, and probably any planned new speakers, have not been designed primarly for active systems.
I believe that the green gear was always ideally intended for active systems.

I think we will see two Naim camps forming, and possibly a separate forum, for the greens vs the black-faces.

malcolm

Prior to delivery, my dealer was running in my NAP300 for weeks into his passive NBL system (LP12/Aro/Prefix/ArchivB/82/Supercap) having used 2x250 previously as monoblocks in the so-called NAP125 configuration (which takes them rather close to 135s).

His impression was that once broken in the NAP300 allowed for the first time the NBLs to approach the scale that previously only the DBLs could have done. And was a gross improvement in all other areas as well.

Forget active with a hybrid of 135s and lesser NAPs. Once you have factored in the cost of a Snaxo and *cap for it, you will have exceeded the cost of the NAP300, but probably not its performance. Also, dont forget to add up the cost of extra levels of Fraim or *ana, which can add significantly to the augmentation of black boxes.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

I would not be surprised if a 300 outperforms a passive pair of 135s/125s but will a single 300 really surpass an active system with 135s (as was previously claimed to be the case with the 500)? Very few appear to have had the chance to compare active 135s vs 500 (I certainly never heard this comparison). Did you do this before, Ron?

Any chance you could still try active 135s vs passive 300 yourself? I doubt that any dealers will now be able to do this comparison once the 135s are gone from their shelves (And how many demonstrated active systems at all in the past?).

I wonder if active 300s would be preferred to a passive 500?

Paul

I have, active 135 four pack, Vs 500.

500 opens whopp ass all over the active in every way, not even competition.

This is extended listening as well.

Although I don't own a 500 or NBLs, I have heard NBLs active with 6x135s versus a single 500. As hard as it was to believe, the single 500 devastated the active 135s. The 500 is more tuneful, more musically insightful, clearer, more engaging, and just plain better sounding. And this, mind you, is in a system that is set up as perfectly as you'll ever hear.

Best,

Bob

Bob and Gary:

Thanks for posting your findings. Naim always claimed that was their objective with the 500 (to surpass an active 135 system) but they have made no such claim that I am aware of with the 300. Frankly, I hope that it does.

Paul

Looking at the Naim recommended systems, active is only mentioned after getting to a system with a 500. Wasn't this always the case (active is the last upgrade)?

Jeremy:

That was also the situation before the 500. Yet, it is still possible to put together a very good active system for far less money than a 500. The results with a 52 plus active 250s is still very, very good. If driving SBLs the cost was/is also considerably less than the 500. However the 300 is less than half the price of a 500 and so is definitely a possibility instead of going active.

I would guess that Naim might recommend a 300 over an active system including lesser amps such as the new/old 250 but I don't believe that they ever said that you must have a 500 before going active. Mind you, if I had the necessary cash I would probably opt for the 500 myself. However, the advantage of an active system is that you can build it step by step with improvements all along the way.

Paul

quote:

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Originally posted by garyi:
I have, active 135 four pack, Vs 500.

500 opens whopp ass all over the active in every way, not even competition.

This is extended listening as well.

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Garyi,

I feel you may well be misleading the forum on this one sir, the Nap 500 while a fine amplifier, just does not 'Have the Balls' to 'Whopp ass' (Your Words) over 4 135's, In my humble estimation. I had to purchace another 500 to accquire some respectable 'Presence' in the room I have 2 units monoblocked on a pair of B+W 801's this forefills the role well, what speakers are you comparing the amplifies with, I would be interested, as I feel the active 135's would be substanicaly better than a single 500?
Any how Merry christmas to all forum users

Seasonal Regards David

Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul

David--

I've heard a single 500 demolish 135s (in active mode) on SBLs, NBLs, and DBLs. I've also heard a single 500 annihilate 4x135s driving Vandersteen 5s and ProAc R5s.

Perhaps into something round earth like the B&Ws it would be different. There is, after all, something to be said for system matching--I would never ask a Levinson/Krell/Cello/Ayre/Classe/C-J, ARC/etc. to drive an active SBL/NBL/DBL system.

Best and Happy Holidays!

Bob

Thunderbird.

I never ever intend to mislead anyone.

However I have heard for a great length of time active 135s and a 500 into the same kit.

I have no doubt, and indeed guess it could be measured that the 500 is better in every way.

I am sorry if perhaps you think differently or mayhap own 135s, but the 500 is better.

Lets get things clear, I can't afford 135s, 300 or indeed a 500, and would dearly love any of each, but for me, an outsider, the 500 is simply fantastic.

And this is after long listening to 135s active and then the 500.

As previously stated its not even the same ball park.

Listening to Songs from the wood, Jethro Tull right now.

This is really a good album for Xmas.

Have a nice one folks!

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Edwards:
David--

I've heard a single 500 demolish 135s (in active mode) on SBLs, NBLs, and DBLs. I've also heard a single 500 annihilate 4x135s driving Vandersteen 5s and ProAc R5s.

Perhaps into something round earth like the B&Ws it would be different. There is, after all, something to be said for system matching--I would never ask a Levinson/Krell/Cello/Ayre/Classe/C-J, ARC/etc. to drive an active SBL/NBL/DBL system.

Best and Happy Holidays!

Bob

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Bob,

Thanks for replying, quite surprised you found this?, I had DBL's before the 801's, and the 500 just could not 'Do the job'(compared to the 135's). I have a Wadia 861 on the front, with two Nap 500's on 801's, and it Boogies,Times and makes great music all day no fuss, still has a lot of the 'Naim' sound but with all those 'Round Earth' traits that everone shunned until all the lastest Naim releases were unleased on the public, now over the last couple of months or so, I have noticed all lot of memebers talking 'blackness, stage inproved, image and deatil', humm seems the Naim revoicing is more 'Roundie' than a lot of memebers care to admit? (Don't know if this is a good/Bad thing) but for me as long as it produces music I don't worry!
I simply found the 135's gave more over-all control,( On Dbls') but having only one Nap 500 on the B+W's was a real downgrade in performance (This is not a slight/dig at Naim but a stright forward A/B comparision?
The second 500 I have recently purchaced, has redressed the balanced no-end, it has great speed and copes with dynamic shifts with ease, while giving fantastic music.
One small point though, My brother has an great amplifier in his set up that, relly does give the Nap's a real run for there money everwhere, and better bass control to boot, although not quite as 'Naim sounding' it is wonderfully close and truely transparant (as in letting the source talk the music, no tainting) and quite a lot less to purchace, oh and it's American (surprised me too).
Still I feel it all boils down to how we like 'our' music, best Xmas Wishes


David

Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul

The above posts confirm my belief that the olive-greens and the black-face sheep need to be in different forums. There will be increasingly conflicting and confusing advice from now on.

We greens need a haven where we can chat and revere the JV sound, free from the marketing hype of the new gear.

malcolm

Why, oh why different forums?! We should be able to communicate successfully about the old and the new gear. There is no war between green and black stuff, oh dear: it sounds almost like racism...

Rockingdoc: We greens need a haven where we can chat and revere the JV sound

I am sure JV would not be unhappy with the new stuff. Maybe it would be slightly different, but he is not here, and people at naim are giving their best. Let's trust them, and I am absolutely convinced that they deserve our confidence.

- Jun

Well I'm sorry, but the new gear is different not better, and I'd rather not have to argue about it in place of optimising our green systems. Possibly Naim may not be thrilled by an "old-fogies vintage systems forum", but other manufactures have the balls to support enthusiasts of their old-gear, and I don't believe Naim will be any different.

OK, I guess it's up to your taste...

other manufactures have the balls to support enthusiasts of their old-gear

In my view naim is doing excellent support for enthusiasts of their old-gear!

- Jun

er, I think that is what I said

quote:

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I am sure JV would not be unhappy with the new stuff.

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What I understood was, JV himself signed off the 500 design. Since the rest (including the 552) is an application of those design techniques (and by inference the resulting performance) there shouldn't be much to argue about or should there?

With the speakers and perhaps power amps, does anyone agree with me that "different" applies rather than "better"?

er, I think that is what I said

quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Toolsie:
having used 2x250 previously as monoblocks in the so-called NAP125 configuration (which takes them rather close to 135s).

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Ron --

How exactly do you set up a pair of 250s to get the 125 mod? Special cables needed? I have a spare 250 lying around while I'm waiting for a third to complete my tri-amp set up. It would be nice to rope it in...

Cheers,

Tim
_____________________________

Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...

quote:

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How exactly do you set up a pair of 250s to get the 125 mod? Special cables needed? I have a spare 250 lying around while I'm waiting for a third to complete my tri-amp set up. It would be nice to rope it in..

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Although using the mono 135-type cables is slightly preferable, you can use the stereo ones you already have.

Connect each of the 250 into one of the Hi/Supercaps outputs. Insert one set of speaker cables into 'channel 1' outputs of one of the amps, and the other into 'channel 2' of the remaining amplifier. You now have them configured where each amplifier is doing current gain for one channel. Note that the unused channel is still doing voltage gain- some folks have even disconnected the output boards for this unused channel, bringing the final '125' to within a hair of a stock 135.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

Didn't realise it was that simple! I now have a pair of 125s. Just need to wait a few weeks for the one channel to warm up...

Cheers,

Tim
_____________________________

Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...

quote:

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Didn't realise it was that simple! I now have a pair of 125s. Just need to wait a few weeks for the one channel to warm up...

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Hah...give it about 30 seconds, and it should easily see off a single, well warmed up 250 used in the stereo mode.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo