A tale of two racks
Posted by: Naheed on 02 January 2003
The Background
Mana Six Tier Rack at Phase 9, with a Two Tier Rack on top of it...
Recently added a pair of 250s, replacing my 140s - which left me severly underwhelmed (they maybe in need of a service).
I found my system had become quite congested, it felt as if the SBLs were controlling the 250s, there was no drive to the music, except a lethargic drone that did everything, just with no passion/emotion.
I always found dropping Mana Phases quite painful - hence avoided it, but thought the whole rack arranagement could be causing some of the problems (cds2 nasties affecting the 52, the snaxo too close to the *caps)...
The Racks
Anyway with a heavy heart i stripped down the whole rack, anyone one who's set-up Mana will understand. I decided to re-house the gear with the cds2 and 52 on the Two-Tier rack @ Phase 6, and keep the snaxo/hicap/supercap/xps/250s on the Six Tier Rack @ Phase 4. 3hrs later !!!
Suffice to say this made cable dressing a doddle, and allowed me the keep the Two-Tier rack a burndy's distance away from the Six-Tier.
The Music
From the off, the improvement was clearly noticeable, now everything had more poise, and so much more expresssion, attack and air around the speakers and the soundstage stretched further forward. Some detail was lost, downside of Mana down-phasing i guess, but what had returned was way better.
Now the 250s have so much more control over the SBLs, bass is deeper and tuneful, but the whole soundstage/imaging lark is done in an effortless fashion. Now 9pm is reasonably loud, where as before i'd crank upto 11 on the dial !!!
To me the cds2 sat above the 52, screws up the 52, maybe its something the cds2 emits, but it does something the 52 does not like...
Additionally i reckon the 250s transformers caused many of my problems, there big and nasty simple as that, and the further you can get non-powered gear, the better.
Where Next...
I believe set-up wise, i can still improve by distancing the cds2 further from the 52, and the snaxo from the *caps - using Mana Reference Tops.
Summary
One good rack is a must, but more boxes = more problems, two racks set-up up thoughtfully are even better.
The best upgrades are free ones --->
naheed...
Mana Six Tier Rack at Phase 9, with a Two Tier Rack on top of it...
Recently added a pair of 250s, replacing my 140s - which left me severly underwhelmed (they maybe in need of a service).
I found my system had become quite congested, it felt as if the SBLs were controlling the 250s, there was no drive to the music, except a lethargic drone that did everything, just with no passion/emotion.
I always found dropping Mana Phases quite painful - hence avoided it, but thought the whole rack arranagement could be causing some of the problems (cds2 nasties affecting the 52, the snaxo too close to the *caps)...
The Racks
Anyway with a heavy heart i stripped down the whole rack, anyone one who's set-up Mana will understand. I decided to re-house the gear with the cds2 and 52 on the Two-Tier rack @ Phase 6, and keep the snaxo/hicap/supercap/xps/250s on the Six Tier Rack @ Phase 4. 3hrs later !!!
Suffice to say this made cable dressing a doddle, and allowed me the keep the Two-Tier rack a burndy's distance away from the Six-Tier.
The Music
From the off, the improvement was clearly noticeable, now everything had more poise, and so much more expresssion, attack and air around the speakers and the soundstage stretched further forward. Some detail was lost, downside of Mana down-phasing i guess, but what had returned was way better.
Now the 250s have so much more control over the SBLs, bass is deeper and tuneful, but the whole soundstage/imaging lark is done in an effortless fashion. Now 9pm is reasonably loud, where as before i'd crank upto 11 on the dial !!!
To me the cds2 sat above the 52, screws up the 52, maybe its something the cds2 emits, but it does something the 52 does not like...
Additionally i reckon the 250s transformers caused many of my problems, there big and nasty simple as that, and the further you can get non-powered gear, the better.
Where Next...
I believe set-up wise, i can still improve by distancing the cds2 further from the 52, and the snaxo from the *caps - using Mana Reference Tops.
Summary
One good rack is a must, but more boxes = more problems, two racks set-up up thoughtfully are even better.
The best upgrades are free ones --->
naheed...
Martin - i placed the cds2/52 to the left, about 2 ft from the amps.
Ideally three racks for active is best, but floor space is a little limited at the moment.
Where are your DBLs positioned in relation to the racks ?
Someone is tempting me with a pair of DBLs - but i can't accomodate them just yet - cool piccie martin
Shahreza, i think the problems still inherent with the new gear, but for me another dimension would be should the 500ps be kept away from the amps, is this why naim split the amp (tranny nasties) or was is it something else ?
naheed...
Ideally three racks for active is best, but floor space is a little limited at the moment.
Where are your DBLs positioned in relation to the racks ?
Someone is tempting me with a pair of DBLs - but i can't accomodate them just yet - cool piccie martin
Shahreza, i think the problems still inherent with the new gear, but for me another dimension would be should the 500ps be kept away from the amps, is this why naim split the amp (tranny nasties) or was is it something else ?
naheed...
quote:
Originally posted by Naheed:
Martin - i placed the cds2/52 to the left, about 2 ft from the amps.
Naheed,
yup, that's best.
quote:
Ideally three racks for active is best, but floor space is a little limited at the moment.
I'm sure two racks would be fine for a 2x250 system, but the SNAXO needs to be away from the trannys just as badly as the CDS & 52.
quote:
Where are your DBLs positioned in relation to the racks ?
From that picture, they would be directly behind the camera.
The electronics are in the narrow end of the room, and the speakers fire across the wide end.
quote:
Someone is tempting me with a pair of DBLs - but i can't accomodate them just yet - cool piccie martin
If you get a really good sound from SBLs I'd certainly recommend DBLs.
Would you go active or passive? I still have a spare NAXO3-6 (silver bumper) if that might help you (would need to be reconfigured from Isobarik to DBL, though).
Have you still got your old 140s? Maybe they could be pressed into tweeter duties in the short term?
cheers, Martin
Martin, the attached image maps my current set-up and two alternatives, one using reference tops and the other substituting the 2 Tier for a 3 Tier.
A potential issue housing the snaxo with the 52/cds2 is the wire jumble (hicap/snaxo and to the 250s)...
But given the improvement by moving the cds2/52 (and they were already 2ft away vertically from any p/supply) - then surely the snaxo will benefit, and hopefully cure the radio moscow/france 'pickup' issue i'm having.
The DBLs would be nice, my 140s are gone, but unless i go for the loft conversion or move something downstairs - i just have'nt the space to accomodate these giants
Martin, have you tried distancing the 52 from the cds (maybe swap the 52 and snaxo around) - as even Paul.S. has mentioned the best set-up regardless of rack brand is cds2, empty shelf, then 52.
naheed...
A potential issue housing the snaxo with the 52/cds2 is the wire jumble (hicap/snaxo and to the 250s)...
But given the improvement by moving the cds2/52 (and they were already 2ft away vertically from any p/supply) - then surely the snaxo will benefit, and hopefully cure the radio moscow/france 'pickup' issue i'm having.
The DBLs would be nice, my 140s are gone, but unless i go for the loft conversion or move something downstairs - i just have'nt the space to accomodate these giants
Martin, have you tried distancing the 52 from the cds (maybe swap the 52 and snaxo around) - as even Paul.S. has mentioned the best set-up regardless of rack brand is cds2, empty shelf, then 52.
naheed...
Flex
Shame my realisation was later, but the addition of the 250s (big trannies) exacerbated the problem.
I have experimented with the 52/cds2 and always found an improvement, not huge but worthwhile and free
The cds2 chucks out to much RF, etc... the 52 is very sensitive and it doesn't take allot to knock it off optimal.
Oooh cold 52, that'll hurt, the 52 takes a while to get back to a consistent normal, the warm-up performance peaks-and-troughs are worrying, but nonetheless its interesting hear the 52 develop and settle.
I'm waiting to order a 3 or 4 Tier to house the cds2/52/snaxo, leaving an empty shelf if possible under the cds2.
naheed...
Shame my realisation was later, but the addition of the 250s (big trannies) exacerbated the problem.
I have experimented with the 52/cds2 and always found an improvement, not huge but worthwhile and free
The cds2 chucks out to much RF, etc... the 52 is very sensitive and it doesn't take allot to knock it off optimal.
Oooh cold 52, that'll hurt, the 52 takes a while to get back to a consistent normal, the warm-up performance peaks-and-troughs are worrying, but nonetheless its interesting hear the 52 develop and settle.
I'm waiting to order a 3 or 4 Tier to house the cds2/52/snaxo, leaving an empty shelf if possible under the cds2.
naheed...
I've now settled on this set-up, and still surprised at the improvements coming from box shifting.
Point to note where, the cds2 distanced from the nac52, snaxo away from the trannies, the empty shelf, and the xps on top for the easiest cable dressing I've ever done.
naheed...
Point to note where, the cds2 distanced from the nac52, snaxo away from the trannies, the empty shelf, and the xps on top for the easiest cable dressing I've ever done.
naheed...