run in/warmup...

Ken

Warming up is completely different from running in a component from new.

My CDX is 3 years old, the 82 is 5 years old and the Hicap and 250 are 8 years old. I have always powered down my system when I go on holiday - in fact I totally disassemble and relocate it, apart from the speakers.

The reconnection process has the advantage that it cleans the contacts - which is a good thing. Most of the warm up improvement takes place within the first few hours, and within a day or so it is fully up to speed. In fact I think that the speakers probably take the longest to come to life again.

Conversely I don't think that the amps and power supplies can have a 95% optimal period (assuming 5% run in) before service/recapping. Logically the performance must tail off as the equipment nears recap time, although the drop off in performance might not be obvious without a direct comparison.

I recently tried a Supercap in place of my Hicap and the improvement was massive, but I am curious to find out how much of the difference was due to the Hicap performance dropping off due to its age and possibly needing recapping.

Phil March at Phonography has offered to loan me a newish but run in Hicap, so I can judge for myself the differences between new and old - I have no idea if the Hicap has been improved in the last 8 years. I hope to take up the offer shortly to satisfy my curiousity so I'll post the outcome when I do.

Chris

many thanks for jumping in. i am glad you agree that runin and warmup are different. i also switch off my hifi when i go on holidays. else i wont enjoy myself at all -- what with the odd severe thunderstorm? can do serious damage...

"Conversely I don't think that the amps and power supplies can have a 95% optimal period (assuming 5% run in) before service/recapping. Logically the performance must tail off as the equipment nears recap time, although the drop off in performance might not be obvious without a direct comparison."

this makes a lot of sense. if we assume cap effect starts right from day one, then we have 2 opposing effects -- runin/warmup increasing performance one the one hand, and natural cap deterioration decreasing performance on the other. the fact that we hear improvements with warmup must mean that the negative cap effect must be very small compared to positive runin/warmup. i would surmise, without proof, that after warmup, the component performs optimally, till a certain time, say 9 or 10 years, when the performance starts drooping when a recap is required. if you like, the performance curve has two "knees", one at the lower and as the equipment runs in, and the other at the right end when capacitors need replacing. (sort of like an upside down bath) i surmise that the middle bit of this curve is flat, and is as good as you are ever going to get performance-wise.

it would be rather worrying if the performance curve started drooping just after runin

i have heard a lot of good things about phonography. good luck with your "past the first knee hicap" vs supercap comparison. let us know what you find. as you probably know, i upgraded my snaxo's hicap (not too old) to supercap, and the increase in performance was something i simply had not even imagined. the hicap was recently recapped and also well runin/warmed up. so i can almost predict the result of your test.

i hear that even things like naca5 need running in/warmup. hmmmm...

thanks for your thoughts.

enjoy

ken

The NAC112/NAP 150 sounds absolutely awful (excuse me) when cold, but after a few hours the sound becomes balanced, PR&T becomes recognisable and a soundstage begins to appear. Oh, and this thing called bass starts to happen! After that improvements still occur, but more subtly and more slowly.
The NAC102/140 sounds great from cold - and then subtly improves over time. Admittedly this combination has undergone more running-in.
The CDX/XPS, warmed up and run in, was replaced by a CDS2 straight out of the box - never been used before. It blew the CDX into the weeds, which sounds sterile and "digital" in comparison with this beast. I can't wait to hear one warmed up. Unfortunately we can only hear it if John brings in his very own XPS!

oh man,

"The CDX/XPS, warmed up and run in, was replaced by a CDS2 straight out of the box - never been used before. It blew the CDX into the weeds, which sounds sterile and "digital" in comparison with this beast."

is music to my ears!!

you see i am getting a new cdsii next week -- what you say indicates that the runin may not be as anxious a time as i was fearing...

for that, and your thoughts that break-in process may be equipment dependent, i thank you. funny you should mention 102/140 -- i am thinking of getting just that system for my Kan 1's spare system.

from those who know, is it true that nap500 takes the longest to break-in?

from recent experience, i have found the best of way of ensuring a fast break in is to avoid any tweaking during the run in period -- but to simply play music on the system

enjoy

ken

Hi Met

Yes, I know the Supercap is hugely better than the Hicap.

What I want to check out (just out of curiousity) is how much better a new Hicap is than my 8 year old Hicap.

Chris