CD5i - unimpressed... But CD5... Help me decide :)

Posted by: domfjbrown on 12 January 2004

Well, I finally got round to demming the CD5i this weekend, as I'm on a mission to replace my elderly(ish) Mk1 Rega Planet, which I had no complaints with sonically, barring a noisy transport on some discs. Until Saturday, that is...

The dem system consisted of:
NAIT5
Dynaudio Audience 42s
Naim cables/unsure of racking. This is the nearesst approximation they could get to my NAIT3/Ela Mk1s/Target racks (ssssh!!!)

First up, the CD5i, warmed up. This was OK - but the stereo panning (I won't go so far as soundstage 'cos I hate that word) was very very odd - pannings on Air's "La femme D'argent" didn't work at all - kind of left->hole->right on a left to right pan etc. Love's "Forever changes" was a mess as well. Evenescance worked fairly well considering the singer's toppy vocals... A few more tracks (including "A building panic" from Back to Titanic, and a dodgy CDR from CDR from MD from vinyl of Incantation's "Cachapaya" (my vinyl copy, done on Planar 3) left me feeling curious - as this is old skool PR&T and nothing else it'd seem...

Next up, the Planet 2000 (with second revision) - unsure if cold or warm. Blimey - the CD5i sounded REALLY muffled - like, as in, broken, like a tape deck with dirty heads) in comparison, but the Planet's timing was nonexistent. So that didn't last long...

The Jupiter (not warmed up) showed both previous players a clean pair of heels, but I don't rate the build on it at ALL - very flimsy. Noisy mech again too so negates the purpose of an upgrade...

..."Urm, Mr Audio Excellence - please please let me try a CD5 just to be sure"
"It's not warmed up either"
"I don't care - let's try it"

Well - it is different to the Jupiter, but not worse or better IMHO really - it had all the emotion of the Jupiter but with more poise I think - the timing was as good but different, and the build was faaaaaar better. A brick. I was concerned by both the 5 and 5i with that puck, but you get used to it really quickly...

So the 5 has been in my home system since Saturday. It's the first player that consistently gives me goosebumps, though I'm not sure at the mo if the timing's any better than my Mk1 Planet. That said, I'm not sure if it's a dem model or a brand new one, as all the packaging (remote etc) was unused. It even managed to play Whitesnake's "1987" without ripping my ears off, though Cinderella's "Gypsy road" was a bit harsh - probably down to the late 80s mastering....

So tomorrow is D-Day - do-I-buy? Due to Exeter's limited hifi shops, it's either this, a Rega (hmmph) or some crap from Sevenoaks like Arcam (yeah right - my 1988 freebie Tosh from last week'd beat that!)...

The 5i should make sense, but based on what I heard, the 5 I think is the only way; in my rig the NAIT3/CD5 play each other to give refinement but enough groove - I think the 5i would be a mess in there...

My Rega Planar 3 is (from memory) still slightly ahead though

BTW - WHAT does a flatcap do to the 5's sound, 'cos I'd love to know but won't want to fork out for a while?

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by bigmick

re. flatcap. More goosebumps, raised eyebrows in a good way and the silent mouthing of the F word. I shouldn't bother listening to one now though as the 5 is a belter in it's own right and I think that you should enjoy it raw for a while to experience the real benefit of a cap, which can be a relatively cheap future upgrade, second hand and all that.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by David Stewart

Why not consider a secondhand 3.5 with a HiCap - cost you around £950ish and goes well with Nait3. Might suit you better than the 5. HiCap did make a big difference to mine so I guess an F-Cap would benefit the CD5, but perhaps not by so much.

David

"Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours." :Carl Sagan

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Roy Donaldson

I went in to do a very similar dem to you at the weekend there. I listened to both the CD5i and the CD5.

I actually did very similar to you, in that the CD5 is now in my house and being very listened to. The main difference is that I went and bought it

Very happy with my new purchase and have spent the weekend enjoying 10 new CD's I went and bought that very afternoon.

Roy.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by David Stewart:
Why not consider a secondhand 3.5 with a HiCap - cost you around £950ish and goes well with Nait3.

It's the reliability factor - I want new for the 3 year guarantee etc, as me and CD mechs seem to have a bad history. My first CDP spent 5 of it's first 12 months in the repair shop (and was STILL a POS after that!)... Plus I think maybe the NAIT3/CD3.5 might be "too much of a good thing" where rawness is concerned.

I think the nude 5 and the NAIT3 compliment each other really well so far...

Roy - I have to take the CDP back tomorrow morning; I have a feeling (all being well!) that I'll be leaving with a new one.

Oh - how do you know if the player has the PIC upgrade?

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by greeny

Why the question?

You did the Dem, you like the CD5 the best, you just need to decide if it's worth the money. If the CD5i doesn't float your boat then for gods sake don't buy it.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Rana Ali

I have probably written this many times before. I had a mark 1 Planet & it was replaced by a new CD5. The initial disappointment of spending all that money for a player that did not initially sound better was replaced by relief after it had 48h to run in. Adding a Hi-Cap was fantastic, the music making capabilities are now in another league totally. I have not heard a FC2 but reports are that thye improvements are of the same order. Go for it Dom.

Rana

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Roy Donaldson

PIC update - all new CD5s should come with the latest firmware in them out the factory. However, you can check by turning the player on with no CD in the tray and holding down the Prog button on the remote (make sure it's set to the CD position first). I think P109 is the latest.

There is a Sticky thread at the top of the forum, with full details on all the firmware version.

Roy.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Rasher

quote:
Originally posted by David Stewart:
Why not consider a secondhand 3.5 with a HiCap - cost you around £950ish and goes well with Nait3.

Well, I was about to say the same thing. I have a 3.5 with a flatcap, and my buddy has a naked 3.5. When I took my flatcap over, the bottom fell out of his world (rather that the world falling out of his bottom) in that he finds it hard to live without my flatcap now. He now needs one real bad. I had a Rega Planet too (still have actually) and the 3.5 is a big step up IMO. The addition of the flatcap (cost me £100!) does the same thing again. Havent tried a HiCap on it, but it must be pretty good. I don't know that there is so much of a difference between a 5 & a 3.5, so would expect a 3.5 FC to beat a naked 5. I haven't tried it though.
What you haven't yet considered is a used CDX.

Maybe you should

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by greeny:
Why the question?

You did the Dem, you like the CD5 the best, you just need to decide if it's worth the money. If the CD5i doesn't float your boat then for gods sake don't buy it.

Fair play dude

Just me doing a Nuno

Seriously though - the PRaT isn't much above the Mk1 Planet I usually use, but vocals etc are so much more believable - and even at a (for me!) large £1200 I reckon it's good VFM. Particularly for the fact it can be upgraded...

As I say though, the one I have on loan - I don't know if it's the one I demmed (thus fully run in) or not. It sounds very respectable indeed though. Looking forward to getting home and trying it out for the last night before it goes back now

BTW - will a Flatcap 2 run a CD5 AND a NAIT3 (if I got the NAIT modded???)

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by Rasher:
What you haven't yet considered is a used CDX. Maybe you should

Funny you should say that - I was thinking of asking Audio eXcellence if they had one in... I've heard it a few times and it's nice - and it'd have a guarantee then as well

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Rasher

When I buy stuff, I generally know what is needed next in my system anyway. I try the stuff in the shop and wonder if I can hear any real improvement, decide that the differences are very small and probably wouldn't justify the outlay, and buy it anyway. I am generally very stupid in this respect, but eventually I realise that it is the best system I have ever heard, and it evolves by me upgrading mainly on faith. It's ridiculous, but demo'ing stuff really doesnt work for me. (Which is good because listening to a CD3/552/500/NBL system in the shop sounds no better to what I have at home. Like I said..)

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by HTK

quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:

So tomorrow is D-Day - do-I-buy?

Entirely up to you! If it sounds right, then it is. I'm biased, but that aside, adding a Flat Cap or Hi Cap down the line is a no brainer. More of everything - you have to hear it to believe it. Not that the CD5 is dull without one (as you already know).

Cheers

Harry

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by Leon:
I wasn't keen on the build of the jupiter neither...thought those front buttons "playstation" like Cd5 was always the best player for me...

Yep - my mk1 Planet seemed better built (metal front etc) plus it has proper plastic buttons; the ones on the Jupiter/current Planet quite frankly MING! The lid really did feel nasty though - not impressed...

Hmm - I'm surprised about the CD5i, but there's another thing barring the sound; it takes longer to catalog discs. I don't use RW (apart from to master so I can dub to R on the PC at low speed) so I don't need that capability...

Hmm - will give it more of a workout tonight and see what's what

Rest assured you guys'll be the first to know what I intend to do (hope it's not a blooming long waiting list...)

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by bjorne

quote:

BTW - will a Flatcap 2 run a CD5 AND a NAIT3 (if I got the NAIT modded???)

Yes that's what it's designed to do. Flatcapping my Nait3r was very worthwhile, especially with CD. Maybe a good vfm option if u can find a used one.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by andy c

Hi Dom,
Can't help u re thr 5 choice, but I ran a Flat-capped then Hi-capped 3.5 for ages, and the upgrade in power supplies is a no brainer.

When you go back ask the dealer to tempt you so you know what your next upgrade will be - Rasher is right on the money here. You could save up and get a 2nd hand Hi-cap for the price of a new flat cap...

regards,
andy c

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by HTK

quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
(hope it's not a blooming long waiting list...)

Unlikely. But if they don't have one in stock you have 2 further options. Ring round some dealers, or keep the one you've got and if it wasn't brand new when you took it home, haggle.
Ironically, if it's in absolutely A1 nick and sounding good, you've got a better player than you'll end up taking home. In the short term.

Cheers

Harry

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by domfjbrown

Well - played some more stuff tonight. Still not quite wrapped my head around the slightly weird soundstage (sorry dudes!) but everything from The Go-Gos to Beverly Craven via Nirvana and, err, Chic along the way was sounding pretty damn good.

I actually had the thing on an RDC platform to see what it would do and it seemed to improve groove while preserving PRaT so that's cool...

Roll on 9.30 tomorrow...

BTW - Audio-T have an original Flatcap for £199 - I take it that's a fairly large pay out for it though??

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Colin Ackerman

So tomorrow is D-Day - do-I-buy? Due to Exeter's limited hifi shops, it's either this, a Rega (hmmph) or some crap from Sevenoaks like Arcam (yeah right - my 1988 freebie Tosh from last week'd beat that!)...

domfjbrown

I take it you have dem'ed the Naim/Rega players with the Arcam FMJ CD23. My local Naim dealer said at this price point Arcam are big sellers. They must be doing something right.

Colin

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by domfjbrown

Urm, well, I've discounted the Arcam by default - based on their A85 I'd find it very hard to stay awake listening to their sources...

Plus I've gone off motorised trays (5 years of owning a Planet does that to you!). That said, I might ask them about that while in Audio-X but I think the Naim might be a keeper....

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by domfjbrown

I've not got a CD5i - I have a straight vanilla CD5 - and it's not mine yet...

That said, I'd not go Meridian for the simple reason that any transport >10 years old is stupid if you ask me - nice burnt out laser etc....

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Greg Beatty

I'm in a simlilar position is you - I have naim amps but not yet a Naim CDP. I *almost* had a CD5, but the 2nd-hand one that was brought by had obvious, visible flaws and a non-Naim power cord (!).

I would buy but am waiting for Naim's DVD player. Depending on price, maybe that or a (cheaper then?) 2nd-hand CD5.

That said...

I owned a CD3 for three years and have demoed the CD5 extensively at my dealers and at home.

There is something about it that makes other players sound broken, IMHO. If I wasn't the sole wage earner with an 11-month old at home, I would have one to couple with my Nait 5/FC2 fer sure.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Posted on: 12 January 2004 by Steve Toy

When the 5 series was first launched back in 2000 I had the chanceto mix and match it with the 3 series in all permutations of CD3.5 versus 5/ Nait 3 versus Nait 5.

The combination I settled on for, for all of involvement, groove and finesse was the CD5 into Nait 3.

There you go Dom, it's almost on a plate for you!

At a later date you can add a Hi-cap to the CD5 (something you can't do to a 5i)

Regards,

Steve.

Posted on: 13 January 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Toy:
The combination I settled on for, for all of involvement, groove and finesse was the CD5 into Nait 3.

Well, I've never heard any other Naim source in my system, but certainly the 3's raw musicality and the 5's poise and cleanness certainly seem to compliment each other extremely well - even Henryt (ZG member) seemed to be OK with it rather than running for cover - not bad for a round earther with dCS gear

GregB - you're right - my Planet now sounds like my old Sony Brillo Pad (my 1991 midi system player) in comparison - not pleasant. And this was from an 'ol smoothie' as the Planet seems to be touted...

Better finish my breakfast and get back to AudioXcellence!

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 13 January 2004 by Ancient Mariner

I have a CD5 in to a NAC92/FlatCap/NAP90.3 (according to some a beefed up nait3), and I can recomend this combination 100%. The smoothness and depth of the CD5 goes superb with the all out attack of the NAC92 (or nait 3). They compliment each other very well indeed.

My next purchase is a HiCap

Ian Marsh

Posted on: 13 January 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by Ian Marsh:
The smoothness and depth of the CD5 goes superb with the all out attack of the NAC92 (or nait 3). They compliment each other very well indeed.

I guess this is why the NAIT3 is so shit hot with vinyl then

Well, the deed is done - I got the same player back (it IS dem, but only had 4 hours on it when I got it on loan and is mint, so a lot of running in to go) and it's now on repeat with Status Quo's "Rocking all over the years" (don't laugh - it's the longest disc I own) so hopefully when I get home tonight it will be sounding excellent.

I'm just wandering where the sorbothane foot that was under the RDC platform's gone, as the player's sound is improved by using that rather than just the Target shelf.

Don't say "buy a new rack" anyone - I'm skint now!

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.