Advice please on REL subwoofers

Hi David

I used to be a 'Doubting Thomas' but these Welsh boys are pretty persuasive.

If you visit the factory; they stick your head inside a working 'Studio' for 30 minutes to convince you.

You'll agree to buy anything after that, I can tell you!

I use a Q400 with a similar system to your own (see my profile).

The key is subtlety. Set up correctly; a good sub will integrate and open up the missing 'acoustic' of your music as well as adding the obvious grunt.

I have no practical experience of the Quake, but it offers staggering performance for its size.

It's also easy to hide.

Hello David,

Maybe I ought not to answer this - whatever I say may be misrepresented because I have an obvious bias/prejudice. Whatever, here goes:

The Q150E mk2 should be thought of as the big brother to the little Quake. It has obviously more power, thus goes louder and deeper. I think I would prefer a pair of Quakes to a single Q150E, particularly in a "difficult" room.

The only true advice is really to get a decent demo, then choose. As you are a Naim fanatic (who isn't?), then I assume that you are an audiophile. Therefore it is imperative that you connect it the way REL recommnd, i.e. at high level. It is also imperative that you read the setup instructions carefully and follow them. It is so important that it be setup to integrate, not overwhelm the system. A hint: It will be mostly inaudible when setup correctly, but very obviously noticeable when switched off!

Hope this helps.

Richard,
I would be very grateful for a few words of wisdom... I currently have a Q150E on dem over the weekend.
Main speakers are shahinians driven by Linn Klimax power. I am finding that the sub fractionally behind the shahinians.
would you advocate me trying two Quake's set at suitably lower output powers or trying a larger unit in the ST series?
My experience so far has been that with classical and jazz the improvement is very clear, with rock / pop and electronic music I am slightly less sure.
I have used the setup guide from your site to achieve the position and settings that are currently employed.
Any comments or thoughts would be very gratefully received.
Regards
David

Thanks very much for the advice. I think that I will go for a Quake to start with.

Do I connect the sub to the outputs of the 135's or can I do it from the speaker terminals as this is easier?

CDSII, 52, 135's Fraim, and SF Electa Amator II's

I can't speak for Rel but I have an MJ Ref 1 which seems very like a Rel. I have connected it at both high level into the speaker outputs and low level through a preamp preout. There is no doubt that in my system the low level connection is fundamentally better and that the high level connection compromises performance of both sub and power amp.

Alex

Alex,
I had a Linn Akurate sub on loan which killed my system on low level completely. I am not convinced that there is any 'standard' behaviour more a case of suck it and see. Have you got the MJ in your main system then?
David

Thanks for the advice.

Please what cabling do I need to set it up?

CDSII, 52, 135's Fraim, and SF Electa Amator II's

I have SBL's driven actively by 135's. How would you connect a sub and what would be the ultimate?

Steve

Hi David, how are you? Yes, the sub's in the main system. I think you're right about there being no 'standard' - God knows each camp argues vociferously enough though - just try it and see. I guess.

Alex

Alex,
Not too bad. I moved in the week before christmas. The system is sounding good, but not as good as it should. Had the quad 988's in my new living room briefly. Awful! they need some space. Time to sell them.
David

Shame - mighty fine them 988s

quote:

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Originally posted by Alex S.:
Shame - mighty fine them 988s

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Are they? I need to try a pair in my speaker quest..currently featuring Naim ?BL, Neat MF7 and Quad 988.

Dev -- who needs more woof in his woofer and more scale.

ps. do the Quads have to be miles into the room? And are they safe if prodded? Lethal voltages, etc?

Dev,
I would say they are might fine, but I am biased. I would have loved to have heard them in Alex's bunker. Or better still a pair of 989's in his place, I really think they would manage to fill that space a treat. See your PT's.
David

I'm a bit late coming in on this thread, but I would like to offer some advice.

How about NOT putting a subwoofer with your Naim system?
I find that usually avoids all associated problems with regards to integration, positioning and cost.

If you want BASS, lose the Sonus Fabers.
If you want really tight, musical, albeit a little light, keep them. They're very good speakers.

Joe90

I had heard from someone at Naim North America that connecting a sub to the speaker outputs of a Naim amp is "contraindicated" and would void the warranty. Curious if others would confirm this and what they are doing with subs.

I am quite happy with my set up and want the sub for AV. I am curious to hear the difference when running with the Naim equipment but don't belive that it will improve my enjoyment. But for AV I am sure that it will.

CDSII, 52, 135's, Fraim, and SF Electa Amator II's

Joe90,
POssibly a random question.. But will subs still be evil animals when Naim make them?
David

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike in PA, USA:
I had heard from someone at Naim North America that connecting a sub to the speaker outputs of a Naim amp is "contraindicated" and would void the warranty. Curious if others would confirm this and what they are doing with subs.

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I believe most high-level (speaker terminal) connections for quality active subs are 100k and couldn't affect the amp in any way.

While putting a pair of passive subs in parallel with the main speakers might/would produce a very low impedance and might/would cause problems.

Nime

Everyone has the right to be wrong.

Dear David C

Yup, they are evil from any company. For music that is.

I think that Naim will make one for AV use and I will certainly give it my blessing.

david r:

sorry, I thought you meant to add it to your music speakers.

I'll shut up now...

Again; the subjective nature of our perception of reproduced music is illustrated here.

I use a REL Q400 with my SBL's (very subtly!) but for me; something is lost if I switch off the sub. And I'm not talking about just low bass - I'm talking about a loss of spatial information and sweetness in the mid and top end.

This (I think?) is to do with losing a chunk of the spatial information recorded in the (normally) missing lowest frequencies.

This is easliy demonstrated by playing solo acoustic guitar with the sub on and off.

Visitors find this pretty convincing.

In my experience subs work if you choose the right one(s) and integrate it/them properly.

I asked this somewhere else, but got no answers. Does anyone no how a Rega Vulcan,which is supposedly made by REL, relates to the othger REL subs?

Bruce