First frustration of a Naim system
Posted by: Rockingdoc on 27 September 2002
As a newcomer to the complete Naim system I have just encountered my first major frustration. The system suddenly stopped working yesterday, but which box is to blame? All the lights are on CDS/52/Supercap/250, but no sound.
Usually I would just swap in other pre-amps and power amps to find the guilty pary, but with the stange connectors and 'instability' of the 250 with other pre-amps, such diagnosis ain't so easy (ok I was able to eliminate the CDS).
So I'll have to pack up all the boxs and take the lot back to the dealer.
Anyone got any diagnostic tips for dealing with the peculiarities of Naim connectors?
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by Noel
Naim pre-amps work very well with lots of power amps. Din to phono splitter required. The power amps are best when used with Naim pre-amps. If you're using NACA5 to the speakers I wouldnt expect a problem for low level output from the power amp when using a non Naim Pre. You only want to find which bit has no output - could just be a lead. Run it at a low volume for a short time. Not sure where you get the phono to 3pin lead though. With both channels down I'd say the 52 is the likely issue, but if you cannot hear any background hiss on the speakers then the 250 is dead.
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by John Sheridan
I presume you've checked obvious things like the mute button and loose speaker connections? How about powering everything off for a while and seeing if it works after a little rest?
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by Chris L
Never having had this happen to me, it's difficult to advise.
Were listening at high volumes? Could be thermal safety cut-out on the 250. You could try leaving it off for a few minutes (I forget how long is needed to reset the safety cut-out).
Or, did you buy all/most of the equipment from the same dealer (even if not all at the same time)? If so, get the dealer to come to you, and have a look over the setup. After all, if you pack it up, take it to them, and they set it up, and it works, you'll be none-the-wiser.
Chris L
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by Rockingdoc
I'm usually quite competent in the diognosis line, so no cable or connector problems. I too suspect the 52, but that could be due to a faulty feed fron the Supercap. There is v.low level noise from the speakers and the normal hefty thump on power-up of the 250, and lesser click a few seconds after power-down.
Interestingly, if I depower the 52 and 250 at the same time ( I know I shouldn't) I get a split second of normal volume music signal through the speakers before the caps discharge.
I know it is a back to the dealer job for something. My point was how difficult it is to diagnose the broken box in the Naim system.
Supposing it is the 52 and it has to go to the Naim hospital for amplifiers, does anyone have experience of driving the 250 with other pre-amps and are there any special 250 precautions?
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by John Sheridan
quote:
My point was how difficult it is to diagnose the broken box in the Naim system.
It's pretty easy if you have another system to test each of your boxes in. I'm happy to play swapsies if you want.
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by Rockingdoc
Already back in action thanks to the mystical healing powers of my dealer.
Like others on this forum I have bought high-end (read high-price) gear without the need for a dealer dem or installation, and wished I could have bought direct to save some of the dealer margin. Today, I was able to turn up at my dealer with a bootfull of boxes and have him cheerfully leave what he was doing and spend an hour connecting up various bits of kit to sort my problem. This is why it is worthwhile investing in a dealer and not begrudging their profit. I know Naim would have sorted it out too, but I saved postal costs (for a lot of heavy boxes) and at least a few days without the system.
Cheers Billy Vee.
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by Bosh
Out of interest what was the cuplrit?
I lost the left channel when I reconnected following fitting the Crabtree sockets the other week.Cured it by switching the NAP500 off for a couple of mins and back on again!!
Posted on: 27 September 2002 by Rockingdoc
errr, we don't know actually. Spent most of yesterday taking the system apart and reconnecting, had all the cases off, checked all the boards and fuses, checked all the cables. Plenty of lengthy de-powering. All to no avail.
Driving across south-east London in the boot of my car seemed to help.
It seems to me that the input switching IC in the 52 which automatically switches back to input one after a total de-power may be the culprit. Must say I think I prefered the mechanical swith with a relay system as on my Sugden and Levinson.
[This message was edited by Rockingdoc on SATURDAY 28 September 2002 at 12:01.]
Posted on: 28 September 2002 by Not For Me
In old systems I had some strange faults.....
With a 102, one channel would go after a few minutes of playing. Culprit was that the phono card connector was touching the pcb pin, but not actually on it. When things warmed up , it lost the connection. Solved by seating it properly.
My 250 used to do the thermal cut out. Solution: turn it down, and stop the ears bleeding.
My 52 would change input channels without tounching the fasica or the remote when I put the needle on the record. Solution: connect the earth of the deck to the 52, not the Groove.
BTW, I use a 250 with a Behringer mixing desk as a pre-amp, never had a moment's problem.
DS
OTD - Dollar - The Paris Collection
Posted on: 28 September 2002 by Rockingdoc
It has done it again. Total silence.
Posted on: 28 September 2002 by Rockingdoc
I've now had time to make up various interconnects and adaptors, and therefore was able to isolate the problem box.
The new 52 has a weird fault where it switches its output on and off, then on again, then off again at about hourly intervals.
Any similar experiences?
In the meantime I'm playing with different preamps into the 250.
Posted on: 28 September 2002 by Derek Wright
I have seen that happen when sunlight was being reflected from other furniture in the room, it would change the input selector and also mute the output - I overcame it by leaning a bit of card infront of the infra red port (Window) on the front of the the 52
Not a definitive diagnosis but just some experience
Derek
Posted on: 29 September 2002 by Martin Payne
Derek,
I once had a remote 're-transmitter' (from one room to another).
This was placed close to a TV. The interference from this would cause various wierd behaviour from the 52.
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 30 September 2002 by Adam G
Hi, Ive had a similar/not-so-similar problem with my NAC102...
I posted a question about this earlier today...
The details can be found
here, but to cut a long story short, the pre amp switches inputs by itself.
I havent found a cure for this yet. But I reckon its something to do with my TV, in that when something is on pause (this has happened with a DVD and a Gamecube game), as when the TV is switched off (or is actually showing moving pictures) the problem doesnt occur.
Any ideas would be much appreciated...
Posted on: 30 September 2002 by Rockingdoc
Well mt NAC52 has gone off to the Naim hospital, but another word of praise for my dealer who immediately gave me another 52 on loan until mine returns. You don't get that when you buy from e-bay.
Posted on: 30 September 2002 by Rockingdoc
Billy Vee, SE London. But I'm sulking now because I wasn't invited to the Linn beano in the other thread. I guess they know that they have all of my money already.
Posted on: 02 October 2002 by Rockingdoc
looks like we'll never know what the problem was because Naim just sent me a brand new 52. You certainly don't get that from e-bay either.
I promise never to cost up the components in my Naim boxes and moan again.
Posted on: 03 October 2002 by Frank Abela
dmg,
I work in a Naim dealer's on Saturdays. Apparently, it has the highest reliability of the makes we do (the usual suspects - Linn, Naim, Cyrus, Arcam, Rega, Chord Electronics) and by quite a margin. They're also very good at getting things fixed and will usually let us know what went wrong in the item. Many other manufacturers send back kit they've fixed with comments such as "replaced part".
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
Posted on: 04 October 2002 by Rockingdoc
oh really. Well my second new 52 is also faulty, this time the remote volume control doesn't work. The motor clicks but the thing don't move.
I think there is a serious problem with Naim's quality control at the moment, for the green-box stuff at least, perhaps they don't care about it. I paid full price for my 52 and still don't have a working one.
Everyone has been polite and helpful, but surely something is wrong if two "flagship" pre-amps in a row are sent out from the factory to a single customer not working.
The endless return journeys to the dealer and weeks with the frustration of a faulty system for which I paid full price is seriously eroding my confidence in Naim.
No wonder the service department is so good, they obviously get lots of practice.
Posted on: 07 October 2002 by Rockingdoc
My third new 52 is due for delivery this week. I am hopeful this will be the end of my frustration.
Posted on: 07 October 2002 by GC
i once sent a 10 year old hicap back for a service and they were honest enough to tell me that it had in fact never worked because some windings were not connected at the time of manufacture, i wasnt the original buyer, but was still annoyed as id had the box three years and i thought i couldnt tell any difference!!
Posted on: 07 October 2002 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by GC:
i once sent a 10 year old hicap back for a service and they were honest enough to tell me that it had in fact never worked because some windings were not connected
And I bet the original buyer had been posting about the insane good effect the HC had had on his system...
These 52s are giving you a hard time, Rockingdoc. One more failure and I feel Salisbury should give you a 552 for your pains & patience.
Herman
Posted on: 08 October 2002 by Rockingdoc
quote:
Originally posted by herm:
quote:
Originally posted by gus cammish:
i once sent a 10 year old hicap back for a service and they were honest enough to tell me that it had in fact never worked because some windings were not connected
And I bet the original buyer had been posting about the insane good effect the HC had had on his system...
These 52s are giving you a hard time, Rockingdoc. One more failure and I feel Salisbury should give you a 552 for your pains & patience.
Herman
Quick Herman, write and tell them to give me a 552
Posted on: 08 October 2002 by herm
Paul, do it.
The guy deserves one.
Herman
Posted on: 08 October 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Rockingdoc,
If Naim sends you a dodgy 552 in consolation, I'd be happy to swap for my very reliable 52.
David
