Stands MacLavry where it did?

quote:

Originally posted by David Scott?:
I realise this is a risky question, but I'm not aware that it's actually a banned topic...

Now that the Naim Dac exists (and many months have passed) where would those who have, or have had, a Lavry DA10 (with or without a Macs) say it now fits in the scheme of things.

Hope I haven't given offence by asking.

or how many that talk about the ndac have one

Regardless of how I personally feel about it, new kit doesn't change the sound of older kit. It is what it is and if you liked it before, so should you now but the Naim DAC is better.

We had a listen to Tonym's Lavry alongside a Weiss and Naim DAC in his big Naim system a few weeks back.

The Weiss and Naim DAC were better, but we were all agreed that the DA10 was excellent given that it was less than half the cost. Tony may comment if he sees this, but they are great bits of kit at their levels.

I agree with js, finding a new anything that appeals does not diminish what you previously used.

Joe

Pretty well spot on Joe. The Lavry's a real bargain (even better with a Powerline...) & it still puzzles me why some folks are relatively underwhelmed by its abilities.

Sample variations? We know of a couple. The systems they've been used with? Definitely a factor.

If computer-based music was my principle source then I'd probably get a Naim DAC but as things stand I'll stick with the Lavry for the time being.

quote:

it still puzzles me why some folks are relatively underwhelmed by its abilities.

Because I've heard it twice and it gave me a headache both times .... however, when I heard the nDAC with a computer front-end I was not overwhelmed and did feel it having a similar effect: although it was much better than the MacLavry in that respect, but still not for me.

However, put the nDAC on the end of a CDX2-2 and something magic happens. Give the nDAC a USB stick to play and it sounds great. Perhaps the Lavry given a CDX2-2 to feed it would have appealed to me (though I'd be surprised if it improved on the onboard Naim DAC). So whilst I'm never going to a be a MacLavry fan - I'm not sure whether it is the first or second syllable or the combination that doesn't suit. Still my view matters not one iota to anyone bar me - and I agree that the nDAC's appearance does not alter the sound quality or vfm of the DA10.

It is always going to be difficult to say why what person finds extraordinary another finds underwhelming - the Music room is full of such discussions. However, another finding something underwhelming does not change the product or music and should not prevent its delighted owners enjoying it - which I'm sure it doesn't

For my own part I would like to solve this problem and my thoughts are that a computer with solid state drives and a decent non-switch mode power supply coupled with a firewire to S/PDIF interface may be the answer, as I realise I will have to embrace computer music sooner or later through the nDAC. As for CDs - a decent CD transport + nDAC/555PS seems very worth the while if you have a 555PS in the house - if not then the Rega ISIS is worth a listen (and yes it can take a feed from a Mac).

ATB Rotf

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

it still puzzles me why some folks are relatively underwhelmed by its abilities.

Because I've heard it twice and it gave me a headache both times ....

Am I right in assuming that neither was at Tony's place? The point I'm making is that we might all agree if we hear the same thing, but that's rare. Tony's place was a headache free zone for sure, his DA10 sounded the warmer of the options I think although not as incisive as the other two, a pleasant listen it certainly was.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

it still puzzles me why some folks are relatively underwhelmed by its abilities.

Because I've heard it twice and it gave me a headache both times ....

Am I right in assuming that neither was at Tony's place?

Joe

Yes you are assuming absolutely right.

Once was a comparative demo at UHES and the other was at the home of a work colleague. Others who have the heard the sample I heard at UHES said it was a rogue sample - perhaps it was. However, the second sample I heard sounded similar, albeit through a different system.

Tony's sample is probably a lot better: it must be because I trust what you're saying, but now the nDAC is available - the "what stand-alone DAC question" is solved for me.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
Yes you are assuming absolutely right.

Once was a comparative demo at UHES

Yes, if that was the one John got from Richard it was replaced foc, I would agree with you. It was congested, unfocussed and rather tiring. But both John's replacement unit and Tony's sound pretty sweet to me.

One day we may rule out the variables. My guess is we don't hear these things that differently, if we are confronted with the same demo - or we wouldn't be here.

Joe

Lavry or Benchies should be good enough for a background music or in a second system all along.

They are not terrible for the money, but I won't use it as my primary source or giving up my CD players for it.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

They are not terrible for the money,

I'm sure they will rest easy knowing you think that.

Goodness me, no way would I pay what a Lavry costs simply for background music!

The Lavry is an awful lot better than that! It may not be to everyones' taste, as witness the wars against it here in past times, and the aftershocks still apparent in this thread, but many of us found it very fine as a primary source for serious listening at its price, and strangely rather better than its price might suggest. And I speak as someone who who would under no conceivable circumstance what so ever allow a CDX series player house room. Among the Naim players for tireless listening one must go to the estimable CD5 or the CDS series in my view.

And I thought a good deal of the Lavry. Now whilst it is all opinion, I am not at all sure that we all listen the same way at all!

I am certain that I listen in a profoundly different way to some here!

ATB from George

Just to add my two pennies worth.......recently been having lengthy demos at home in my system and at various other friends places /dealers etc of dacs namely the Ndac v Weiss (already own a Lavry)and jolly excellent it is and it was NOT disgraced in any way by the other two "superior"dacs especially at the price.

Surely just for 'background music'.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

They are not terrible for the money,

I'm sure they will rest easy knowing you think that.

Do you know anyone who gave up their S3 or CD555 for the Lavry?

Order of price difference of six to one or fifteen to one!

Would you advance the case of the budget solution as actually being finer?

Psychology would deny it in any case, even if the ears could not sort it out ...

Kuma, your piling on against the Lavry is comical actually, and you once criticised its sonics for colouration.

And I believe you like the LP 12 with Achiva, so you would know all about like replay with colouration. But pressumably the right - Kuma-esque - sort of colouration!

Come on - The Lavry is a smashing piece of kit and exceptional VFM at its price, but only a twit would say that it is going to cause to many CDS3 or CD555 owners to kick themselves for buying something less fine for a lot more money!

ATB from George

George,

I am not against Lavry or any 1k DAC out there.

It's just that there is not such thing as a giant killer as some make them to be is all.

Everyone's circumstace and listening bias are different but the fair assessment of either units is good for what it costs.

I said it's a a good unit for the money ( altho, not sure about *smashing* bits as other 1k or less DAC would have been fine, too )

Regarding colouration, it's the certain sonic fingerprint I didn't get on with ( same goes for the Benchie ) and wasn't my cup of tea for sure.

So, I picked the colouration suited for my taste.
You can call it Kuma-esque.

You can call it Kuma-esque. :¬)

I do!

I have another DAC that cost much less even than the Lavry, and it pleases me very much as well. Neither serve or served as mere background listening ... Which is the kind of back-handed compliment that appears profoundly against any piece of replay equipment to me. It might be good enough only for back-ground listening for you, but that does not make it worthy of that sort of damning comment if applied as general rather than personal comment.

As ever the advice must be to audition. Few of these things embarrass thermselves in the act of being listened to ... The differences between competent digital pieces are rather small compared to the differences in LP replay for example.

ATB from George

quote:

Come on - The Lavry is a smashing piece of kit and exceptional VFM at its price, but only a twit would say that it is going to cause to many CDS3 or CD555 owners to kick themselves for buying something less fine for a lot more money!

Hear, hear!

George,

Discussing any piece of hifi equipment is always going to be subjective.

I've read many comments here on God like Lavry with amusement but I guess that's how the legend is made on the internet.

I agree that digital upgrades are less rewarding more so than analogue in general and you'd pay a lot for what seems to be a small improvement.

For those who want to exploit beyond the sea of 1K and under DACs, he/she should listen to both and then decide if the extra outlay is worth it.

Naim is not daft. Before rolling out their first DAC, I am certain that they have done some homework.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

They are not terrible for the money,

I'm sure they will rest easy knowing you think that.

Do you know anyone who gave up their S3 or CD555 for the Lavry?

Kuma,

I only know three people with 555s and they all have DA10s for computer audio and would not agree with your rather condescending dismissal on value terms. They love their 555s but they would not be making the "value" case for it when they compare it with their DA10s. As for S3's yes indeed including my own, and several who had other CD players.

I now have a Weiss (DA10 in another set up), having also compared the Naim DAC I think both of those are considerably better than my CDS3 was. I can see Naim selling plenty of DACs.

Each to his own, but to dismiss a device that is owned by many fellow Naimees as "not terrible value" when it costs a fraction of even the cheapest CDP is missing the point.

I'm not a fan of the strange effects and rather uncouth presentation of Isobariks, but they have fans like yourself and it would be arrogant and rather churlish to deny that they are good value in today's market.

Regards,

Joe

quote:

Each to his own, but to dismiss a device that is owned by many fellow Naimees as "not terrible value" when it costs a fraction of even the cheapest CDP is missing the point.

Joe,

It seemed that you missed my point.
I did say:
Everyone's circumstance and listening bias are different but the fair assessment of either units is good for what it costs.

So, stop over reacting.

I still believe that it's not a giant killer but it's good for what it does for many folks but not for all.

The fact that there aren't many folks who gave up their reference digital over the Lavry or using it in a secondary system made my point rather nicely.

Just as the Briks, Lavry won't be a good value for some.

It's not a condescending dismissal, but another view that is just as valid as others.

So are you ditching your CDS3 for good?

It went to a good home.

The Lavry DA10 certainly opened my eyes to what can be achieved with a £600k DAC and a computer audio front end.

Comment about OK for background music is way off-mark IMO. But each to their own.

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:

quote:

Come on - The Lavry is a smashing piece of kit and exceptional VFM at its price, but only a twit would say that it is going to cause to many CDS3 or CD555 owners to kick themselves for buying something less fine for a lot more money!

Hear, hear!

But any competent DAC is fine enough to give even the finest CD players a run for its money.

I have made my choice of going the DAC way and am enjoying music absolutely. I would not consider using a CD player again, and it is only a matter of time before the playing field slews even more towards the DAC route in my opinion.

ATB from George

George,

What Dac are you using now?

David