Tuning In Baroque Times
Posted by: u5227470736789439 on 03 April 2006
Dear Friends,
In another Thread a question was posed which I answered thus:. [It is too thought provoking to leave buried as an answer in a Thread that was only obliquely related in some ways, so I apologise if no one is interested, but hope this may get a few views, and even a discussion going. Fredrik].
____________________
Baroque Pitch is not quite fixed in the way of modern Pitch, which is normally established at A = 440 Hz.
In fact there are two regular Baroque Pitches, but you would never guess that from modern recording using 'Baroque' Pitch. Chorton, and Kammerton. Chorton is higher than modern pitch and Kammerton is lower. They are basically a tone apart, and Kammerton is usually about a semi-tone flat of modern pitch. Pitches used for Kammerton vary from roughly A = 407 Hz to 435 Hz, and are typical taken as being at 415 Hz for Bach's time and often at 435 for later pre-classical music. The Organ in Bach's time was tuned to Chorton, which required the player to use a transposition if he was to accompany a Baroque Orchestra, as the wind instruments would never be able to tune up a whole tone, and be in tune at all, as the absolute lengths for the tuninng holes would be wrong. A wind instrument is fundamentally built for the pitch it can play in tune. With stringed instruments it would produce many snapped strings!
Chorton is self-explanitary, being the pitch of Choirs, and Organs. But Organs are notoriously variable as to precisie pitch, as every re-tuning makes them go sharper, because the ends of the pipes are shortened each re-tuning! Thus a full rebuild will also involve retuning to a chosen standard pitch, by lengthening all the pipes again! Even the time of year will affect the pitch as the change in pipes' actual length with different ambient conditions will be enough to produce a discernable change in it to those with sensistive ears.
Then we might consider that even Bach's Well Tempered Clavier was written for a tuning scheme that was not (it is now believed) exactly what we have on the modern piano but a different compromise. It must be remembered that ALL conventional keyboards are fundamentally out of tune! Using them to accurately correct sung notes is not possible for example. Correctly the tuning chord at the begining of a piece should only be a single note, from which the choir can pitch its own relative first notes with accuracy!
The note C Sharp in A major (the major third above the Tonic, and never in tune in any scheme of keyboard tuning) is actually a different note to D flat in A flat major (which should be a perfect Fourth but actually only pitched as such in just intonation), but it is represented by only one key in a keyboard.
As for Baroque intruments being less easy to play in tune, there is a good deal in this. Gut strings are quite unstable in some atmospheric conditions, and the woodwind instruments were quite treacherous, on certain notes, to get exactly the correct tuning, but there is no more excuse for out of tune playing on old instruments (or copies) than any other type, but we must be aware that if you have a perfect pitch for example that the variety of pitches used and choice of correct (in terms of HIP) tuning schemes used for keyboards, may cause some listeners to consider the result ill-tuned, even if the actual tuning is fine enough.
One example of this can be a continuo cello adjusting his tuning to match a harpsichord, away from the "just intonation" we recognise as perfect, and which all string players use as well as choirs, towards the modified temperament of the keyboard, and of course there are any number of schemes for tuning Baroque keyboards, let alone our modern scheme! Poor tuning is by no means the preserve of Baroque performance practice, for all that.
____________________
Busoni had something to say about keyboard tuning.
He said that the human ear has a remarkable ability to perceive what is meant, rather what actually happens, and thus a keyboard in isolation will sound adequately in tune even in mean temperament.
The ear corrects the intervals, naturally. The problem arrises when there is a keyboard playing with other natural instruments or voices, where the nature of the intonation is always an artistic compromise!
In Baroque times some of the tuning schemes were beautifully in tune but only in one key, and acceptable in a handful of related keys. For anyone truly interested in this try looking out for Silbermann's Wolf, which descibes the phenomenon of the Wolf notes on the old tuning schemes on keyboards, most horribly apparent in the key of B Minor! Bach and Silbermann fell out very seriously about this, even then archaic, scheme that Silbermann used for his Organs, whilst Bach wanted to be able to use a much wider range of keys than the old scheme allowed to sound reasonable. For those who consider Bach a consolidator and reactionary, the evidense on his approach to keyboard writing shows he was capable of considerable revolutionary tendencies! He virtually set the conditions for our modern even temperament on keyboards, and set out to do so with Well Tempered Clavier.
All the best from Fredrik
In another Thread a question was posed which I answered thus:. [It is too thought provoking to leave buried as an answer in a Thread that was only obliquely related in some ways, so I apologise if no one is interested, but hope this may get a few views, and even a discussion going. Fredrik].
____________________
Baroque Pitch is not quite fixed in the way of modern Pitch, which is normally established at A = 440 Hz.
In fact there are two regular Baroque Pitches, but you would never guess that from modern recording using 'Baroque' Pitch. Chorton, and Kammerton. Chorton is higher than modern pitch and Kammerton is lower. They are basically a tone apart, and Kammerton is usually about a semi-tone flat of modern pitch. Pitches used for Kammerton vary from roughly A = 407 Hz to 435 Hz, and are typical taken as being at 415 Hz for Bach's time and often at 435 for later pre-classical music. The Organ in Bach's time was tuned to Chorton, which required the player to use a transposition if he was to accompany a Baroque Orchestra, as the wind instruments would never be able to tune up a whole tone, and be in tune at all, as the absolute lengths for the tuninng holes would be wrong. A wind instrument is fundamentally built for the pitch it can play in tune. With stringed instruments it would produce many snapped strings!
Chorton is self-explanitary, being the pitch of Choirs, and Organs. But Organs are notoriously variable as to precisie pitch, as every re-tuning makes them go sharper, because the ends of the pipes are shortened each re-tuning! Thus a full rebuild will also involve retuning to a chosen standard pitch, by lengthening all the pipes again! Even the time of year will affect the pitch as the change in pipes' actual length with different ambient conditions will be enough to produce a discernable change in it to those with sensistive ears.
Then we might consider that even Bach's Well Tempered Clavier was written for a tuning scheme that was not (it is now believed) exactly what we have on the modern piano but a different compromise. It must be remembered that ALL conventional keyboards are fundamentally out of tune! Using them to accurately correct sung notes is not possible for example. Correctly the tuning chord at the begining of a piece should only be a single note, from which the choir can pitch its own relative first notes with accuracy!
The note C Sharp in A major (the major third above the Tonic, and never in tune in any scheme of keyboard tuning) is actually a different note to D flat in A flat major (which should be a perfect Fourth but actually only pitched as such in just intonation), but it is represented by only one key in a keyboard.
As for Baroque intruments being less easy to play in tune, there is a good deal in this. Gut strings are quite unstable in some atmospheric conditions, and the woodwind instruments were quite treacherous, on certain notes, to get exactly the correct tuning, but there is no more excuse for out of tune playing on old instruments (or copies) than any other type, but we must be aware that if you have a perfect pitch for example that the variety of pitches used and choice of correct (in terms of HIP) tuning schemes used for keyboards, may cause some listeners to consider the result ill-tuned, even if the actual tuning is fine enough.
One example of this can be a continuo cello adjusting his tuning to match a harpsichord, away from the "just intonation" we recognise as perfect, and which all string players use as well as choirs, towards the modified temperament of the keyboard, and of course there are any number of schemes for tuning Baroque keyboards, let alone our modern scheme! Poor tuning is by no means the preserve of Baroque performance practice, for all that.
____________________
Busoni had something to say about keyboard tuning.
He said that the human ear has a remarkable ability to perceive what is meant, rather what actually happens, and thus a keyboard in isolation will sound adequately in tune even in mean temperament.
The ear corrects the intervals, naturally. The problem arrises when there is a keyboard playing with other natural instruments or voices, where the nature of the intonation is always an artistic compromise!
In Baroque times some of the tuning schemes were beautifully in tune but only in one key, and acceptable in a handful of related keys. For anyone truly interested in this try looking out for Silbermann's Wolf, which descibes the phenomenon of the Wolf notes on the old tuning schemes on keyboards, most horribly apparent in the key of B Minor! Bach and Silbermann fell out very seriously about this, even then archaic, scheme that Silbermann used for his Organs, whilst Bach wanted to be able to use a much wider range of keys than the old scheme allowed to sound reasonable. For those who consider Bach a consolidator and reactionary, the evidense on his approach to keyboard writing shows he was capable of considerable revolutionary tendencies! He virtually set the conditions for our modern even temperament on keyboards, and set out to do so with Well Tempered Clavier.
All the best from Fredrik