Capitalism

Fortunatly,I have been away this weekend and had not seen the way this thread was progressing.What a bl--dy shambles, yes, you can all complain, yes, we all know someone who unfortunatly has had operations canclled, and for whatever reason, that is discusting and inexcusable treatment to have been metered out to anyone.WE ALSO ALL KNOW many people and their families who's lives have been at the very least improved, if not actully saved, by the people who staff[ generally at grossly low wages] the NHS.
No other Health Oganisation will take the long term and the chronically sick, so don't uphold the Private Sector as being the be all and end all.Mick if you feel so strongly about how inadequate the NHS allegedly is. Get yourself and your handshaking pals down to your local NHS Hospital and do some good for a change, instead of,as you are always telling everybody else, whinging about it. Volunteer to do some useful work to help, for a change, even with the limited skills available I'm sure something could be found for you to do.
The people who work for the NHS with all of it's faults do so generally for the love of and to help humanity, and not to make a small fortune, unlike some people who's only imput for the greater need ,consists of obtaining as many free lunches from sociaty as possible,so to speak.
Dispite this Countrys lofty position in the finacial world, it's wealth[ that is our wealth] can only be split so many differant ways .This Country can not afford to pay for both the cost of attacking other Nations and all the cost that ,that entails, and adequately look after it's own people.You had the choice and if I remember correctly, if not I apologise, you whole heartedly supported Blairs war, as they say he who pays the piper ,calls the tune, in your own often quoted words "get on with it".
The NHS is not nor ever will be perfect, but under the circumstances it's the best we have available.If it wasn't for the likes of Mrs Cunningplan and the Tens of Thousands just like her who perform the thankless and unpleasent, if not down right obnoxious tasks that have to be performed day after day it would be a bloody site worse.If you can not, or will not, do anything constructive to help, don't destroy the already low morales and what little esteem is left for those people in the NHS that work bloody hard for the rest of us.
RANT OVER
oldie.

quote:

Originally posted by oldie:
If you can not, or will not, do anything constructive to help, don't destroy the already low morales and what little esteem is left for those people in the NHS that work bloody hard for the rest of us.

Oldie,

The issue here is not how hard NHS staff work. That is not in doubt. We all pay a considerable chunk of our earnings for this service and we have the right to criticize it where we feel such criticism is due. Some may feel that the best policy is to stick their heads in the sand or to fantasize that all is well but I'm not one of them.

Let me make it quite clear that my own criticisms are not directed at the doctors, nurses or even the administrative staff. My criticisms are directed at successive governments and top level management.

I have already suggested my own views of some ways in which the NHS could be reviewed (Stockholm, etc.) and I won't repeat them.

However, let me suggest that staff morale would be considerably higher in a well-governed and well-run system. They'd also earn better wages.

Regards
Steve M

Oldie

You really do come out with some waffle on occassions.

I agree that Maggie made some stringing cuts to the NHS. Unfortunately she inherited a massive level of inflation from Callaghans lot and she had no alternative to use the two most effective monetary tools of interest rate increases and a reduction in Government spending, to cure it.

She succeeded magnificently and it is thanks to her that we are now one of the worlds healthiest economies.

However it is fair to say that successive governments have hit health expenditure and Gordon Brown seems to be moving in the right direction at last.

Never the less, I think he still needs to spend more and this is the one area where I would be prepared to pay extra taxes.

The NHS should not depend on volunteers but well trained professionals. So your suggestion that "my lot" should get down there is dismissed. Incidently, we throw more in hospitals in the third world, than any other organisation.

I also think that there is a misconception about NHS staff being loving and caring people. The nurses are, but the admin staff in the service are no different from admin staff anywhere else.

The consultant who fixed my arm was more caring to me when I mentioned BUPA, so some of them are caring, but not all.

Postmen really do care about the mail and most are dedicated to it, does that mean I am also a caring person.....same argument. All I cared about was getting prices down, because that was what I was paid to do.

Regards

Mick

Sticking, my or for that matter anybodys else's head in the sand, is something I have never yet had the privilige of been accused of, quite the reverse in fact.I just get fed up with the constant harping about the NHS, and UNFORTUNATLY whether or not the focus of your/the critisism is aimed at the Staff, they are the ones who feel it most.I would agree with you whole heartedly regarding
the Managment Quality of the NHS,but I'm not even sure that it would be fair to completly blame them, for all the problems.If you decentralize and fragment any organisation, it can not ever be as efficient as a single unit, be it whilst purchaseing or manageing.There are far to many Health Care auhorities all following their own path for there to be efficiancy ofscale or numbers.In my own area it's "ownership" has changed from
East Sussex Health authority to Brighton and Sussex University Health Authority,and who agreed to this little move,most of us know what has happend to the standard of the Universitys.To change the way the NHS is run, in my opinion, you need to completly rethink your/our prioritys/Goverment.As I stated in my post we could have no doupt the finest,most highly equiped Health Service in the world you just have to decide how you wish your cake cut.
oldie.

FWIW I do not feel criticised. Since I do not have private patients then I hope I am equally uncaring with the insured and the un-insured. Mick, I promise to treat you the same if you ever visit the Dales.

I just hate wilful political misinterpretation of health care issues. It is no coincidence that media portrayal of the NHS suggests it is in collapse every time we are about to have an election.

Bruce

quote:

Never the less, I think he still needs to spend more and this is the one area where I would be prepared to pay extra taxes.

If you really mean that Mick then I applaud you for saying it. There may be a lot of people prepared to in principle to pay extra taxes, but would anybody vote for a party that said that they would raise taxes.
On saying that all elected parties increase taxes anyway, whether it be direct or indirect.

Regards
Clive

PS NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO THE COWS IN THIS THREAD

Clive

Sod the cows.

You may or may not recall that I have said on many occassions, health spending needs to be increased and I fully supported Gordon Browns raising of NI contributions last year.

That does not mean I am becoming a bloody socialist, I would still chop government expenditure ruthlessly, if I had my way with the exception of eductation and health.

Even though I am 56, I would refuse any increase in social benefits and the old age pensions. I begrudge every penny of my tax in that area.

I made provision for my retirement and I expect everyone else to do the same. That is one area where the Americans have got it right.

Regards

Mick

Ohhhhhhhhhhh how I love Mick, when he has his Humanity Hat on
oldie.
I'm just off to throw another pensioner on "me fire" got to keep warm some how.Problem is they don't give out much heat!usless Bas--ards!

A MARKET-DRIVEN-AND-THEREFORE-RIGHTEOUS CORPORATION

You are a one of the few fat cows among a population of millions of cows.
Most of the cows are not fat.
Most of the cows, in fact, hover around the average weight.
Some cows are very thin.
The fat cows see themselves as "wealth producers" and believe that some aspect of their cowness is superior and that's why they're fat.
In actual fact the fat cows are fed through the work of the average cows and the very thin cows who work hard but none of these cows can never get over the fence into the paddock with the long grass and the very few fat cows.
The fat cows forget what it is like to be hungry and start to think that the same rules that helped them to get fat can make all the cows fat but that there's just some deficit of ability or willingness to work hard that keeps them from fatness...

oldie

Oldie

Anyone of our generation who has not built up sufficient provision at the age of 65 is truely a useless bas--ard.

I resent proping up useless bas--ards. All they do is make things worse for everyone else.

Regards

Mick

Mick,
Re read, Deane's little bit of Prose, most apt I think
oldie.

Mick

If, and when, you retire to a sunnier climate, will you be paying UK taxes ?

If not, do you intend to give up your right to UK NHS treatment if you take unwell or require hospital treatment whilst in your new domicile ?

LTD

Ever heard of the EU ?

Regards

Mick

Ah. European when it suits........

A wonderfully British characteristic if ever there was one .......

Fot those Non UK folk out there who really want to hear (online) what the real top percentage of Brits listen & Comment upon daily (24 Hours) Mr Parry is in the moanings I believe, then check this out for the REAL CHAVVY NON EU THICK SELFISH MORONS WHO RING IN and think yourself (barring my twaddele) lucky that this Fowum exists to vent your Gwiefs² innit.

http://www.talksport.net/content/69.chtml


Fritz von I couldn't make it up honnist

P.S. James Whale is a larf for starters

Back to the NHS.

It is clear that no one is knocking the front line & support workers. I should know, a very good friend is a nurse.

A major problem with the NHS is the management. I can say that with certainty based upon my wife's past experiences at East Surrey. Politically driven appointments. Individuals who simply wre not up to the job in terms of ability and management skills. I could recount a number of stories but it can be summed up simply as ineffective management unable to direct the resouces to fund the frontline resources.

Mike

Whils't just listening to afore-mentioned radio station (register first with micky mouse phone number etc ) I learn't that £400 Billion have been "USED" by this government so far on the 'NHS'

Graham,
Sorry, but I will have to decline your offer to guide me to "entertainment" I have heard of this "journalist"???????????? before
and, If you will excuse my simily,If I wanted to stick my head in a bucket of Sh-t I could go down to the local "Waste Water treatment" works.
oldie.

Yes he is different isn't he old son ? Last night the elected Mayor of Brighton was talking to him over a private council mess up that got sorted on air so to speak beacause of who the DJ was, and would normally affect you & I with months of grief, stress, court rubbish, heavy tactics at ones door etc, bloody horrific tactics used by debt firms these days on vunerable folk, worse than the bloody detector vans innit ?

Fritz Von These firms make many mistakes too, the excuses about staff and IT breakdowns etc was so pathetic I had to laugh, let them try such rubbish (generally here) and see what happens, frightening really


The serious entertainment's on in an hour or so with a nice milk coffee to-boot 'Question Time' in the hoose naturally, cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by cunningplan:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by cunningplan:
TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM:

A WELSH CORPORATION
You have two cows.
The younger one is rather attractive



I object to this slur...but fair dues, I don't like the look of yours.

Andy
Don't worry too much I'm a Welsh and it's nice to find other animals attractive besides SHEEP!

Regards
Clive

The cows in Aber are a decent ride, but the cows in Carms have better grass, sheep all look/feel the same to me... although they do make good jumpers!

Enthusiast Manufacturer Cows

The Enthusiast Manufacturer Cows provide milk to new levels of refinement and quality not available anywhere else in the world. The cows match themselves perfectly with almost fanatical precision in order to ensure that each bottle contains a consistent and unsurpassed quality milk, but of course it all costs a lot of money. There is a significant market however amongst milk fanatics that just can't get enough of it, to the extent that they group together to discuss the stuff and talk of their next purchases. Years and years pass, and the milk gets better and better, and the word spreads, but never under any circumstance does the milk quality suffer. These cows are enthusiasts themselves, after all.

One day however, one of the cows looks over the fence and sees that other cows are selling butter, yoghurt, cream and chocolate drinks. HHmmm, they think. If we could provide these products at the same quality as our milk, then we really would be doing well. They get to work.
Eventually it dawns that they have never made butter, yoghurt, cream and chocolate drinks before, and they have a lot of learning to do, so they let the milk take care of itself while they put all efforts into the other products. The milk fanatics are noticing a difference as some milks are not bottled as nicely as they were before, and questions are being asked, and fended off. Just for a while. Just until they get the other products right.

The cows haven’t realised however that milk is milk, consistent market, consistent consumers – but tastes and demands in the other products change almost weekly! They have spent all this time making their products, but now the cows next door have invented a vanilla milk drink instead! As they perfect each product, the rules change and the product is obsolete, and they have to start all over again. And all the time the milk suffers. And all the time they try to keep up with a constantly changing market. Eventually of course they become just like the cows in the field next door. And all the other fields for that matter.

One day many, many years later, one cow has a dream. This cow dreams of being different. Making a milk to new levels of refinement and quality not available anywhere else in the world. The cows match themselves perfectly with almost fanatical precision in order to ensure that each bottle contains a consistent and unsurpassed quality milk, but of course it all costs a lot of money. There is a significant market however amongst milk fanatics……….

The British Chancellor is at this very moment reading his budget in the House, and it already bores me to death, I just find it hard to believe his words that UK's National Debt is under 40%, sheer jugglery at it's finest.


Fritz Von The Brilliant Rev Jessie Jackson said in an interview yesterday that large amounts of top grade farmland in Southern US States are being used NOW to buils numerous NEW prisons housing 'mainly ' Black prisoners for 80% non violent crimes, and are all making superb PROFIT

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Oldie

Anyone of our generation who has not built up sufficient provision at the age of 65 is truely a useless bas--ard.

I resent proping up useless bas--ards. All they do is make things worse for everyone else.

Regards

Mick

I'm reminded of my Grandfathers generation (Father's Yorkshire side) who worked down the pit, served in Africa in the War (his most enjoyable days so he told me, barring the obvious horror of War itself, returned to go to the pit again, finished up with British Steel in Leeds on the night shift, before retirement. A strong Union/Labour man all his life, he enjoyed two years of gardening, then snuffed it, as so did many of his contemporary's (from different walks of life, not just industry). A lot of dosh it seems was left in the kitty for future folk, especially those who retired early, or had Civil Service higher pensions, also paid for by the tax payer, so nothing new there then mate, is there, me old Globetrotter extraordinaire ?


Fritz Von I see wine's gettin cheaper in UK

quote:

My shoulder dislocated 4 years ago and I was quoted 9 months for an operation on the NHS or 10 days in a BUPA hospital with the very same surgeon

I'll pass on the fact that these stories are 4 years old.

A surgeon who has waits of 9 months spends his time seeing private patients with skills paid for by the NHS, and cared for by nurses also trained at tax payers expense. Could there be a connection? Could some of the cancellations be because the surgeon is dashing off to see his BUPA patients?

FWIW I don't believe the answer is simply more cash, and I don't believe that many NHS managers are incompetent, rather the traditional management systems imposed on them by Government belong to the 1970's British Leyland school of management.