More Talked About Than Listened To

JR

It's funny I've had some wonderful Jazz recommendations this year and Coltrane and Mingus are the ones i'm keenest on as a Jazz Virgin. I guess there are bands/artists who are highly regarded that for whatever reason we either can't get or just don't like.

The popular artist James Blunt comes to mind. Many people believe him to be rather special. Personally, tho i've tried he just doesn't hit me between the eyes

Regards

Diccus

Jarvis Cocker - reasonable song writer but why does he bother to perform?

Arctic Monkeys
Jeez!

quote:

Originally posted by JRHardee:
The world has seen a number of highly regarded musicians who are just a bit...too far out there. They get lots of respect, but not that much air time. For me, John Coltrane comes to mind--brilliant, but not quite my cuppa. I suspect that a lot of people who might drop his name in a conversation feel the same.

I'll bet there's a bunch of Coltrane recordings you would really dig. For instance, Ballads or Blue Train or maybe even Giant Steps. If the only Trane you've been exposed to is his later stuff (not that there's anything wrong with it, but he did venture beyond the solar system), these albums are more grounded in the kind of traditional jazz you may prefer.

Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Diccus62:
JR

It's funny I've had some wonderful Jazz recommendations this year and Coltrane and Mingus are the ones i'm keenest on as a Jazz Virgin. I guess there are bands/artists who are highly regarded that for whatever reason we either can't get or just don't like.

The popular artist James Blunt comes to mind. Many people believe him to be rather special. Personally, tho i've tried he just doesn't hit me between the eyes

Of course, there's just no arguing with personal taste ... one digs what one digs. But to me, there's a quantum difference between not digging a flavor of the month like James "You're Beautiful" Blunt, and a nearly universally critically and popularly acclaimed giant such as John Coltrane. And it's not that pop music is inherently inferior ... I'd make the same comparison if it were Blunt vs. The Beatles. (I guess we won't know for some time whether Blunt will become one of the giants, although I tend to doubt it.)

But when an artist is nearly universally held to be one of the all-time greats in their field, one might consider spending a bit more time and energy investigating that artist to see if there's some door that opens for them into that artist's world.

Fred

Nirvana. Critically acclaimed, but sounds like garbage to me. (Apologies to all Nirvana fans.)

quote:

Originally posted by Naimed-In-NY:
Nirvana. Critically acclaimed, but sounds like garbage to me. (Apologies to all Nirvana fans.)

I saw Nirvana (at the old Mayfair Nic) and thought they were class, tho I wasn't massively impressed with 'the Who' stage demolition. Love 'Nevermind', not impressed with much else. If he hadn't shot himself though the mouth, been married to Courtney, with a new baby and been the Posh n Becks of Grunge would they still be selling re hashes by the truckload. Death, particularly when young and in tragic circumstances tends to increase one's commercial viability. Still think the drummer is the talented one...........................

Right i'm off to listen to Jeff Buckley

Regards

Diccus

I've never been a huge fan of Nirvana, but I do enjoy their music from time to time, especially the songs Smells Like Teen Spirit (one of the all-time great angst-anthems) and Heart Shaped Box.

I agree that Dave Grohl is quite talented, and I enjoy Foo Fighters as well. But Kurt Cobain definitely had his own musical voice, and it was new and fresh, and profoundly influential.

Fred

quote:

For me, John Coltrane comes to mind--brilliant

As Fred has suggested, do try the 'Ballads' album. I have to agree that some of Coltrane's stuff is too squeaky, unless you are seriously committed.

Nigel

Munch

Buckley dvd arrived but haven't had time to watch it yet.............. will report later.

Diccus

All

I'm another fan of Coltrane's Ballads

Regards

Diccus

quote:

Originally posted by Diccus62:

I saw Nirvana (at the old Mayfair Nic) and thought they were class...

Regards

Diccus

Diccus,

The Mayfair, now you are talking. What a sweat pit that was! There is some footage of Nirvana @ the Mayfair on U Tube, if you want to bring back some memories.

The last concert I can remember seeing there was the Ruts, about a week before Malcolm Owen the lead singer overdosed.

I also have vague memories of seeing the likes of Joe Jackson's Jumping Jive tour and XTC there, but it was the kind of venue where it was sensible to be pissed before you got in!!! Memories, I have a few etc..

Regards

Nic

quote:

Originally posted by Naimed-In-NY:
Nirvana. Critically acclaimed, but sounds like garbage to me. (Apologies to all Nirvana fans.)

The Story of Simon Simopath

Please try this masterpiece from the one and only Nirvana that were worth listening to. Nirvana appeared in 1967, starting as a six-piece led by Patrick Campbell-Lyons from Ireland, and Alex Spyropoulos from Greece. They were quickly signed to the fledgling Island label when it recognized a need to hook into the exploding psychedelic genre of the time.

Their other albums All Of Us and Markos 3 are pretty good too.

On topic, I respect the aforementioned John Coltraine and, of course, Miles Davis, but their music is just not for me. I know it's my loss, but perhaps my inherent roots in a folk tradition make it hard for me to appreciate.

Another well respected artist that I just can't fathom is Bruce Springsteen - obviously talented, obviously acclaimed, but I just don't get it.

Perhaps there is no hope for me, as I pin another Roger Dean poster on the wall.

quote:

Originally posted by nicnaim:

quote:

Originally posted by Diccus62:

I saw Nirvana (at the old Mayfair Nic) and thought they were class...

Regards

Diccus

Diccus,

The Mayfair, now you are talking. What a sweat pit that was! There is some footage of Nirvana @ the Mayfair on U Tube, if you want to bring back some memories.

The last concert I can remember seeing there was the Ruts, about a week before Malcolm Owen the lead singer overdosed.

I also have vague memories of seeing the likes of Joe Jackson's Jumping Jive tour and XTC there, but it was the kind of venue where it was sensible to be pissed before you got in!!! Memories, I have a few etc..

Regards

Nic

God saw loads there - Ramones twice, New Order, U2, Nazareth,Portishead, Beck, ACDC (I think), the Smiths and a few more that have slipped my mind........................ yeah the beer was expensive p***. I always remember waiting hours for the bands to come on. Now alas tis Le Gate.

Saw the Specials at Sunderland mayfair.

diccus

quote:

Jarvis Cocker - reasonable song writer but why does he bother to perform?

Obviously one mans meat etc but this amazes me - of all the stereofit homogenised corporate phoney shite that one has to select from theswe days you slate Jarvis Cocker - IMO one of the most entertaining performers and characters of the last 15 years particularly that episode with Michael Jackson

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
Another well respected artist that I just can't fathom is Bruce Springsteen - obviously talented, obviously acclaimed, but I just don't get it.

.

ROFT,

Sorry to hear that Coltrane and Davis do not do hit the spot for you, but I completely agree with you about Springsteen.

With the exception of a couple of hum along tracks, he does nothing for me. I simply cannot understand what all the fuss is about. Might feel differently if I saw him live, I gather he puts on a decent show.

Regards

Nic

Diccus has seen the Boss 23 odd times (13 on one tour). Loved his music from the early albums and only a few duffers later on. Live he is superb. I'm no where near as fanatical as years gone by tho. I can't see why not everyone doesn't like the boss but thats the thing about our favourite artists................................

Blinkered Diccus

quote:

Originally posted by nicnaim:

quote:

Originally posted by Diccus62:

I saw Nirvana (at the old Mayfair Nic) and thought they were class...

Regards

Diccus

Diccus,

The Mayfair, now you are talking. What a sweat pit that was! There is some footage of Nirvana @ the Mayfair on U Tube, if you want to bring back some memories.

The last concert I can remember seeing there was the Ruts, about a week before Malcolm Owen the lead singer overdosed.

I also have vague memories of seeing the likes of Joe Jackson's Jumping Jive tour and XTC there, but it was the kind of venue where it was sensible to be pissed before you got in!!! Memories, I have a few etc..

Regards

Nic

.....Aaaah XTC - I wuz there (not with Diccus I think which was unusual!) not sure if they ever played the UK again after that tour (when the hell was it?)

Legend has it that Andy Partridge was physically sick before most gigs (basically he hated playing live) apparently they were kept on the Virgin label as long as they were simply because Richard Branson liked em' (despite ever decreasing sales)

Jet,

See link, last Mayfair appearance was Sep 21st 1979, although I also saw them at Newcastle Uni or the poly at some stage. Cannot remember seeing them at the City Hall, as detailed on Dave Gregory's site, but could be wrong. Last live gig was in June 1981 in Cardiff. XTC gigs

Regards

Nic

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
On topic, I respect the aforementioned John Coltraine and, of course, Miles Davis, but their music is just not for me. I know it's my loss, but perhaps my inherent roots in a folk tradition make it hard for me to appreciate.

I actually find their more avant-garde material (especially Davis' second quintet) absolutely magical and the most enjoyable music to listen to. It may be rather challenging material when first encountered, but it more than repays the effort involved in getting acclimatized to this style of music.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Trotz:
I actually find their more avant-garde material (especially Davis' second quintet) absolutely magical and the most enjoyable music to listen to. It may be rather challenging material when first encountered, but it more than repays the effort involved in getting acclimatized to this style of music.

I wouldn't describe Miles' second quintet as "avant-garde," but certainly magical, albeit challenging to some. Some of my favorite music of all-time.

Coltrane's later work (Om, Ascension, etc.) is definitely avant-garde, and while I do appreciate it I don't listen that often. His earlier album A Love Supreme is much more my cup of tea, although still quite challenging to some.

Fred

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Trotz:
I actually find their more avant-garde material (especially Davis' second quintet) absolutely magical and the most enjoyable music to listen to. It may be rather challenging material when first encountered, but it more than repays the effort involved in getting acclimatized to this style of music.

I wouldn't describe Miles' second quintet as "avant-garde," but certainly magical, albeit challenging to some. Some of my favorite music of all-time.

Coltrane's later work (Om, Ascension, etc.) is definitely avant-garde, and while I do appreciate it I don't listen that often. His earlier album A Love Supreme is much more my cup of tea, although still quite challenging to some.

Fred

I agree that Miles never embraced the avant garde jazz style with the enthusiasm that Coltrane did after A Love Supreme, but some of the second quintet's albums (e.g. some of the later material on Miles Smiles) does seem to edge in that direction, at least to my ears.

Coltrane's later material is certainly much more abstract, but some of it (e.g. Sun Ship) is still very enjoyable indeed.


[/QUOTE]

I think ultimately great music just 'is' whether you personally like it or not. I really like Springsteen and think there is something in his catalogue for everyone, unfortunatley most people only know him through 'Born in the USA'. This is actually a great record but one that has been subverted to represent exactly what it is isn't (i.e pro USA chest beating). I love Coltrane but he can be demanding, it took me ages to 'get' a Love Supreme and although I don't listen to it often I really enjoy it when I do. The best intro to him is the through Miles Davies KOB, I think the Ballds album is a bit disappointing - Lush Life is better.

quote:

Originally posted by woodface:
I think ultimately great music just 'is' whether you personally like it or not.

That is correct. And although you'll never find 100% agreement on just what music is great, there is usually enough consensus to separate the wheat from the chaff. Sometimes greatness is conferred due to the sheer numbers of people in the world who recognize that something is great: Shakespeare, Bach, The Beatles ... but sometimes numbers alone are deceiving: Kenny G, Jessica Simpson, et al. Obviously, there has to be a certain level of quality, which I would define as "as good as it gets."

Conversely, greatness can exist in a relative vacuum: Ralph Towner, Art Lande, Eberhard Weber, and many, many others.

quote:

Originally posted by woodface:
I really like Springsteen and think there is something in his catalogue for everyone, unfortunately most people only know him through 'Born in the USA'. This is actually a great record but one that has been subverted to represent exactly what it is isn't (i.e pro USA chest beating).

Yeah, it was very satisfying when Springsteen smacked down Reagan's misappropriation of Born In the USA for his campaign ... must not have read the lyric!

I'm not a big fan of Bruce, but I do recognize his greatness and importance. There are some isolated songs of his I really like, later work such as Streets of Philadelphia, Tunnel of Love, and The Rising.

quote:

Originally posted by woodface:
I love Coltrane but he can be demanding, it took me ages to 'get' a Love Supreme and although I don't listen to it often I really enjoy it when I do. The best intro to him is the through Miles Davies KOB, I think the Ballds album is a bit disappointing - Lush Life is better.

For anyone daunted by Coltrane and looking for a way in, Miles' Kind of Blue is indeed a good start. I would also suggest: Giant Steps, Blue Train, Coltrane (first album with his classic quartet), and Crescent. On these albums you'll find some gorgeous, lyrical playing, and some great, swinging straight-ahead jazz.

Fred