This downgrading idea
Posted by: redeye on 20 May 2003
Folks
Of late there seems to be more and more people contemplating this. Some have actually gone ahead and done it.
Is it the VFM scale at work? Are some getting to the point where they actually resent the gear because of price??
Surely the next upgrade can cost a whackload of cash but it costs nothing to stay where you are.
So like I said..why the need to bin the lot and start again..or is it simply a case of emperors new clothes revealed?
red
Of late there seems to be more and more people contemplating this. Some have actually gone ahead and done it.
Is it the VFM scale at work? Are some getting to the point where they actually resent the gear because of price??
Surely the next upgrade can cost a whackload of cash but it costs nothing to stay where you are.
So like I said..why the need to bin the lot and start again..or is it simply a case of emperors new clothes revealed?
red
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by Minky
Hey Redye.
Congrat's on the footy mate (not).
Emperor's new clothes definitely. The other day I heard Nana Mouskouri and Val Doonican singing "my friend the wind" with Billy Joel on spoons. Singing their wrinkly old hearts out through CD5/Nait/Royds herma's they were, and it was actually quite embarrassing, but I just broke down and wept. I did. You see, rather than the complete absence of any of the qualities generally expected of good hi-fi detracting from the musical experience, it had actually MAGNIFIED it. Quite a revelation. I am now wondering how my treasured copy of Rolf Harris singing "Klingons on the starboard bow" would sound played through a vintage Sony walkman/DreamMachine alarmclock radio. I am going to try this tonight and will report my findings.
Congrat's on the footy mate (not).
Emperor's new clothes definitely. The other day I heard Nana Mouskouri and Val Doonican singing "my friend the wind" with Billy Joel on spoons. Singing their wrinkly old hearts out through CD5/Nait/Royds herma's they were, and it was actually quite embarrassing, but I just broke down and wept. I did. You see, rather than the complete absence of any of the qualities generally expected of good hi-fi detracting from the musical experience, it had actually MAGNIFIED it. Quite a revelation. I am now wondering how my treasured copy of Rolf Harris singing "Klingons on the starboard bow" would sound played through a vintage Sony walkman/DreamMachine alarmclock radio. I am going to try this tonight and will report my findings.
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by Minky
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman:
It is the obsession with constant improvement which kills the enjoyment of music, not the limitations of your current system, whatever that may be. Eliminating the desire to upgrade is the greatest upgrade you can make.
Ross
I agree entirely, and you know the best way to eliminate the desire to upgrade ? Upgrade once and make it count. It's false economy to buy low and work your way up. Waste of time and money. Find your level (after which for you, all improvements are subtle/low VFM). Buy the lot. Forget about Hi-Fi shows, magazines, forums. Live happily ever after. The end.
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Andrew L. Weekes
True Happiness this way Lies...*
There's truth in this. I am firmly convinced that HiFi is a drug of extraordinary addiction, that is also self-perpetuating.
As one's system genuinely improves it's resolution of smaller details becomes better. This can mean that small things are more obvious and drives the desire to address them.
"and the whole goddam thing, starts all over again"
*That song is so appropriate actually: -
"Have you ever wanted something so bad, that it posessed your body and your soul, through the night and through the day,and when you finally get it, you realise it wasn't what you wanted, after all."
Andy.
[This message was edited by Andrew L. Weekes on WEDNESDAY 21 May 2003 at 13:30.]
There's truth in this. I am firmly convinced that HiFi is a drug of extraordinary addiction, that is also self-perpetuating.
As one's system genuinely improves it's resolution of smaller details becomes better. This can mean that small things are more obvious and drives the desire to address them.
"and the whole goddam thing, starts all over again"
*That song is so appropriate actually: -
"Have you ever wanted something so bad, that it posessed your body and your soul, through the night and through the day,and when you finally get it, you realise it wasn't what you wanted, after all."
Andy.
[This message was edited by Andrew L. Weekes on WEDNESDAY 21 May 2003 at 13:30.]
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by herm
Doesn't it depend on where you coming from and where you're going? Going from a NAC 52 / CDSII to a Nait and a CD 3.5 may look like a spectacular downgrade, but in many cases I suspect it's just a form of reverse Nunoism. It's just another way to keep buying. In a while the downgrade gets relegated to the bedroom while the dealer is installing the CDS3 etc in the living room. Even Dr Downgrade, Tony L (if his name may be mentioned here) is constantly changing thingies in his sistem.
To my mind the two brilliant quotes below point the way to perfect hifi happiness, but in fact they are not talking about downgrading, but rather about VFM - which for most people will be found some place in the middle.
Ross: "Once you make a conscious decision to stop obsessing about more boxes, and more expensive boxes, and decide to limit your system to a simple, good sounding minimum, it is much easier to relax and enjoy the music. It is the obsession with constant improvement which kills the enjoyment of music, not the limitations of your current system, whatever that may be. Eliminating the desire to upgrade is the greatest upgrade you can make."
Minky: "you know the best way to eliminate the desire to upgrade ? Upgrade once and make it count. It's false economy to buy low and work your way up. Waste of time and money. Find your level (after which for you, all improvements are subtle/low VFM). Buy the lot. Forget about Hi-Fi shows, magazines, forums. Live happily ever after."
PS may I remind everybody that the nominations for the Nuno Award 2003 for shilly-shallying and dilly-dallying are expected soon? I'm proposing - hey presto - Tom 'Mr Active' Alves, for his non-stop whining about the CDS3. He deserves it (I mean the award, obviously).
Herman
To my mind the two brilliant quotes below point the way to perfect hifi happiness, but in fact they are not talking about downgrading, but rather about VFM - which for most people will be found some place in the middle.
Ross: "Once you make a conscious decision to stop obsessing about more boxes, and more expensive boxes, and decide to limit your system to a simple, good sounding minimum, it is much easier to relax and enjoy the music. It is the obsession with constant improvement which kills the enjoyment of music, not the limitations of your current system, whatever that may be. Eliminating the desire to upgrade is the greatest upgrade you can make."
Minky: "you know the best way to eliminate the desire to upgrade ? Upgrade once and make it count. It's false economy to buy low and work your way up. Waste of time and money. Find your level (after which for you, all improvements are subtle/low VFM). Buy the lot. Forget about Hi-Fi shows, magazines, forums. Live happily ever after."
PS may I remind everybody that the nominations for the Nuno Award 2003 for shilly-shallying and dilly-dallying are expected soon? I'm proposing - hey presto - Tom 'Mr Active' Alves, for his non-stop whining about the CDS3. He deserves it (I mean the award, obviously).
Herman
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Lars
Regarding Dr Downgrade
Herman,
I think Tony's point is that his Nait2 and Kans are good enough and that you will have to spend large sums to better them and that it's better to improve the source. Of course he changes things in his sistem, if he can improve it without spending lots of cash.
It Kan be done!
Herman,
I think Tony's point is that his Nait2 and Kans are good enough and that you will have to spend large sums to better them and that it's better to improve the source. Of course he changes things in his sistem, if he can improve it without spending lots of cash.
It Kan be done!
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Alves:
I object
You can't. It doesn't work that way, Tom.
Of course you can protest in your Acceptance Speech. That would be a rather Nunoish thing, but usually awardees break down and start to thank everybody they've ever met. Alternatively you can donate the Nuno Award to some queerbo charitable cause.
But it doesn't change a thing. If we decide you're going to get the Nuno Award 2003, you're getting it.
Herman
PS I know what you're doing, Tom... You're desperate to get that thing, aren't you?
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Noel
Sometimes things change, like circumstances. Sometimes priorities change. Having to downgrade may be an sad option for some of us, but a reality. It's only hi-fi, worse things happen at sea.
Noel.
Noel.
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Roy T
During the 80’s the Lp12/Ittok/K9/nait1(chrome bumpers)/Kans all mounted on old style SO stands made the sweetest of music.
Should this be considered the zenith or nadir of downgrading?
Could you live with the music and the hugh cash balance accruing from the sale of your latest kit?
Roy
Should this be considered the zenith or nadir of downgrading?
Could you live with the music and the hugh cash balance accruing from the sale of your latest kit?
Roy
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by ejl
quote:
Should this be considered the zenith or nadir of downgrading?
The zenith (not sure about the K9 part though).
Short of a substantive and painful psychological transformation, the easiest cure for one obsession is to simply replace it with another. Downgrading a 25K system to the right level will leave you money for David Slater-esque music purchases for several years.
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by jayd
Personally I've never had a system that was upgraded enough to make downgrading an option, but that has been by design. There seems to be a fever that intensifies as a person's system gets closer and closer to... something. Sonic nirvana, the bleeding edge, state-of-the-art, whatever one calls it. That's when I see most guys justifying "If I just upgraded the preamp to the latest spec, I'd be there, I'm sure of it... I'm soooooo close..."
Best way for me to avoid this malady has been to stay well short of state-of-the-art. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of enjoyment my modest Nait/Planet system provides, even though it's many many thou$and$ away from the best systems out there.
Jay
Best way for me to avoid this malady has been to stay well short of state-of-the-art. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of enjoyment my modest Nait/Planet system provides, even though it's many many thou$and$ away from the best systems out there.
Jay
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Mike Sae
Some good points brought up so far.
I think no one's touched on the awkwardness of it all.
I hate that I need to rewire my house, I hate that I can't push my speakers into a corner like normal people. My CD player is a pain in the ass. My amp comes in three boxes and hums if I use the toaster. Don't get me started on my stereo rack.
Wouldn't it be great to get away from all that; we can enjoy enjoy music on a ghetto blaster just like the rest of the world.
That said, when I play music through my sistem, it undeniably kicks considerable ass. I'll miss it, to be sure.
What to do? A downgrade to a lesser sistem still allows some ass to be kicked while doing away with all that crap that comes with the territory.
I think no one's touched on the awkwardness of it all.
I hate that I need to rewire my house, I hate that I can't push my speakers into a corner like normal people. My CD player is a pain in the ass. My amp comes in three boxes and hums if I use the toaster. Don't get me started on my stereo rack.
Wouldn't it be great to get away from all that; we can enjoy enjoy music on a ghetto blaster just like the rest of the world.
That said, when I play music through my sistem, it undeniably kicks considerable ass. I'll miss it, to be sure.
What to do? A downgrade to a lesser sistem still allows some ass to be kicked while doing away with all that crap that comes with the territory.
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Phil Barry
One good approach to upgrading is Minky's, but even that is likely to be basically unsatisfying to one who loves orchestral concerts.
Another is to upgrade slowly, in smaller steps, until one achieves a high level of toleration for one's system or runs out of money.
Phil
Another is to upgrade slowly, in smaller steps, until one achieves a high level of toleration for one's system or runs out of money.
Phil
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Alves:
I understand now, the award is the CDS3. In that case I accept.
Wrong again, Tom.
Apart from sheer kudos and sex appeal the Nuno Award consists of a special, limited cast of the Rodin Thinker with his hands pressed against his ears. I'm not sure whether it's better than the sex, but it's pretty special.
And the winner gets to give the speech (though usually there are more tears than words).
Let me remind you, however, formally you're not even a nominee. All you have is a chance.
Herman
Oh, and Phil, what do you mean? Particularly with orchestral concerts hifi is never going to cut it. It's just an approximation. So, more than ever, it depends on VFM where you're going to stop, since the only way of getting to be at the concert is to go there, isn't it?
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Greg Beatty
Yep - this is what I'm after. Not the Best of the Best, but a system that gets the music across, is fun, and not too fussy.
I also like that my speakers (Allaes) CAN go against the wall! This is a very practical design when the installation is in a space that has uses other than hi-fi.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
I also like that my speakers (Allaes) CAN go against the wall! This is a very practical design when the installation is in a space that has uses other than hi-fi.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Mick P
Chaps
I like my system, it sounds great and I cannot think of any reason to down grade.
I would not even entertain the idea...utter madness.
Regards
Mick
I like my system, it sounds great and I cannot think of any reason to down grade.
I would not even entertain the idea...utter madness.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by blythe
I have a very nice system at home but am considering upgrading it.
Now, the amount of cash involed in the next upgrade will be quite serious.... Many people on this forum have CDS3's and 52 or 252 or even 552 pre-amps and the like. Many have DBL's and other exotic equipment. It all costs.
However, the kind of people with the kind of cash to buy this stuff, quite possibly drive a very nice car too.....
A nice car, costing say, in the region of £30,000+ will lose a hell of a lot in depreciation as soon as it's driven off the forecourt.(A few exceptions)
The kind of depreciation that would buy a NAP500 for example.
So does everyone sell their WRX/Merc/Ferrari/Jag/BMW and buy a Focus in order to "downgrade"?
No, most don't 'coz the WRX/Merc/Ferrari/Jag/BMW is a better car (I must add I owned a Focus for a couple of years and a very good car it was too).
The bottom line is, if you want the quality, you have to pay for it.
Yes I was happy with my Focus, but I prefer my Merc.
I also own a CD3.5/Nait3/Royd Mistrals system and am very happy with that system. But when I listen to my CDI/82/250's/SBL's - it's simply better.
How much better? I just feel it's worth it.
Would I be happy if I could only afford the CD3.5 system?
Yes I would.
End of story :-)
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Now, the amount of cash involed in the next upgrade will be quite serious.... Many people on this forum have CDS3's and 52 or 252 or even 552 pre-amps and the like. Many have DBL's and other exotic equipment. It all costs.
However, the kind of people with the kind of cash to buy this stuff, quite possibly drive a very nice car too.....
A nice car, costing say, in the region of £30,000+ will lose a hell of a lot in depreciation as soon as it's driven off the forecourt.(A few exceptions)
The kind of depreciation that would buy a NAP500 for example.
So does everyone sell their WRX/Merc/Ferrari/Jag/BMW and buy a Focus in order to "downgrade"?
No, most don't 'coz the WRX/Merc/Ferrari/Jag/BMW is a better car (I must add I owned a Focus for a couple of years and a very good car it was too).
The bottom line is, if you want the quality, you have to pay for it.
Yes I was happy with my Focus, but I prefer my Merc.
I also own a CD3.5/Nait3/Royd Mistrals system and am very happy with that system. But when I listen to my CDI/82/250's/SBL's - it's simply better.
How much better? I just feel it's worth it.
Would I be happy if I could only afford the CD3.5 system?
Yes I would.
End of story :-)
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Wolf
I'd like to upgrade too but have to hold off for a good deal s/h. Luxury does cost and I guess if the money doesn't come thru then I am going to have to settle for my current system.
sure I'd like a Jag like my neighbors but when I get a new car it will be a Focus. I'm just stingy that way. It will get me around but I'd spend a lot more time with my Naim system and enjoy it more.
sure I'd like a Jag like my neighbors but when I get a new car it will be a Focus. I'm just stingy that way. It will get me around but I'd spend a lot more time with my Naim system and enjoy it more.
Posted on: 21 May 2003 by Minky
Richie,
Wow, great post.
To respond to a few of your points :
Diminishing returns ? As you said yourself, it's in the eye of the beholder. For my part, I have never been particularly interested in any upgrade that didn't give me a big bang for my bucks. That's why I didn't touch my system for 6 years (OK, CDS to CDS2, but that's "maintenence"). I just never heard anything that wasn't either less for more or swings and roundabouts. I was also very wary that having got my system working really well, the introduction of a "better" component could make something worse and force me back into the upgrade loop (which can leave you poorer and back where you came from). I know that it's not politically correct to say this, but remove my old system from my room and replace it with my new system and we really are talking 100% improvement, which is why I upgraded.
Your mates ? Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One problem I had with my old system was that people would say "what are all those boxes for" and then tell you that their Bose lifestyle sounded better. OK, the system was seasoned to my taste not theirs but you still want other people to enjoy it as much as you do. My new system solves that with a vengence. Not a criteria but a nice to have.
That upgradeitis is the enemy of music and that smaller systems are therefore better : As I have already said, if you are going to get upgradeitis, get it once and get it big. I may get a CDS3 ("maintenence") but otherwise I am set for many years to come. I spent a week listening to the gear with one ear and the music with the other. Now I just listen to the music (and dance, and sing and get goosebumps and other even less masculine stuff).
Your upgrade path : What are you trying to achieve ? I just wanted to be able to play songs like Neil Young's "look out for my love" through speakers and have the harmonic chunking of his Les Paul behind the words "Hydraulic wipers pumping" bring a tear to my eye like it did when all I had was an LP12 and a pair of headphones. When I got to that level of emotional involvement I stopped. Only you know where your level is, but do it for music, not for the pursuit of technical excellence, your mates, the members of this forum, or any other bollocks.
People with more money than sense : I know a guy that has CDS/52/135/SBL all in packing boxes. His lounge is too small and gets too hot. He is worried that the heat will damage the equipment. This is beyond my comprehension. I see 100 solutions to his "problem" that would allow him to get his system going tomorrow. His solution is to build an extension on the house. He hasn't started yet and probably won't for ages. It doesn't worry him in the slightest. He doesn't deserve that system, and I am sure that there are many others like him, all the way from low to hi-end.
That you are nuts spending tons of money on hi-fi if you are of moderate wealth : Depends on your motivation. If you buy it, get a quick thrill from it and then hardly use it, yes. If you get a buzz from it for hours every day for year after year, money well spent. Richie, next time you go out on the Auckland motorway count the number of $100,000 cars. Are all of those people wealthy ? No, they are all in debt. How dumb is that ?
More boxes are better ? I have gone from 7 down to 3 plugs. The alternative was to go to 9. Simpler, smaller footprint and less to go wrong. I feel positively cleansed.
This forum ? I signed up a few short months ago because I wanted some advice. I got some really good advice and learned a lot in the process and I would like to pass some of this back. I have probably outstayed my welcome but I enjoy the forum because I have "met" some interesting people and it keeps me amused when things are quiet at work. It's a bit like a soap opera - unneccesary but addictive. At home listen to music (although I may have a peek at the forum very late at night when the missus wants her kip).
Better gear, better opinions ? Of course not. If I ask for advice I am after informed opinion from people who have "been there done that" so that I can decide whether to give it a go or not, after which I make my own decision.
Forum advice to upgrade/system envy : There is a good deal of tongue in cheek banter, usually along the lines of "go on, you know you want to", which is fun. I doubt that this has ever pushed anyone into doing anything they wouldn't have done anyway. It would be sad to think that anyone would upgrade to impress anyone on the forum, anyway, for every person that says "the new 250 is awesome" there is another that says "the new 250 is gobshite" so it would be a hard game to win. The general consensus seems to be that the CDS3 is fantastic, but you would have to be pretty dumb to order one on that basis, especially as in a few months there will be people saying that the CDX2 is better.
Sorry, wrote too much ..
[This message was edited by Minky on THURSDAY 22 May 2003 at 09:59.]
Wow, great post.
To respond to a few of your points :
Diminishing returns ? As you said yourself, it's in the eye of the beholder. For my part, I have never been particularly interested in any upgrade that didn't give me a big bang for my bucks. That's why I didn't touch my system for 6 years (OK, CDS to CDS2, but that's "maintenence"). I just never heard anything that wasn't either less for more or swings and roundabouts. I was also very wary that having got my system working really well, the introduction of a "better" component could make something worse and force me back into the upgrade loop (which can leave you poorer and back where you came from). I know that it's not politically correct to say this, but remove my old system from my room and replace it with my new system and we really are talking 100% improvement, which is why I upgraded.
Your mates ? Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One problem I had with my old system was that people would say "what are all those boxes for" and then tell you that their Bose lifestyle sounded better. OK, the system was seasoned to my taste not theirs but you still want other people to enjoy it as much as you do. My new system solves that with a vengence. Not a criteria but a nice to have.
That upgradeitis is the enemy of music and that smaller systems are therefore better : As I have already said, if you are going to get upgradeitis, get it once and get it big. I may get a CDS3 ("maintenence") but otherwise I am set for many years to come. I spent a week listening to the gear with one ear and the music with the other. Now I just listen to the music (and dance, and sing and get goosebumps and other even less masculine stuff).
Your upgrade path : What are you trying to achieve ? I just wanted to be able to play songs like Neil Young's "look out for my love" through speakers and have the harmonic chunking of his Les Paul behind the words "Hydraulic wipers pumping" bring a tear to my eye like it did when all I had was an LP12 and a pair of headphones. When I got to that level of emotional involvement I stopped. Only you know where your level is, but do it for music, not for the pursuit of technical excellence, your mates, the members of this forum, or any other bollocks.
People with more money than sense : I know a guy that has CDS/52/135/SBL all in packing boxes. His lounge is too small and gets too hot. He is worried that the heat will damage the equipment. This is beyond my comprehension. I see 100 solutions to his "problem" that would allow him to get his system going tomorrow. His solution is to build an extension on the house. He hasn't started yet and probably won't for ages. It doesn't worry him in the slightest. He doesn't deserve that system, and I am sure that there are many others like him, all the way from low to hi-end.
That you are nuts spending tons of money on hi-fi if you are of moderate wealth : Depends on your motivation. If you buy it, get a quick thrill from it and then hardly use it, yes. If you get a buzz from it for hours every day for year after year, money well spent. Richie, next time you go out on the Auckland motorway count the number of $100,000 cars. Are all of those people wealthy ? No, they are all in debt. How dumb is that ?
More boxes are better ? I have gone from 7 down to 3 plugs. The alternative was to go to 9. Simpler, smaller footprint and less to go wrong. I feel positively cleansed.
This forum ? I signed up a few short months ago because I wanted some advice. I got some really good advice and learned a lot in the process and I would like to pass some of this back. I have probably outstayed my welcome but I enjoy the forum because I have "met" some interesting people and it keeps me amused when things are quiet at work. It's a bit like a soap opera - unneccesary but addictive. At home listen to music (although I may have a peek at the forum very late at night when the missus wants her kip).
Better gear, better opinions ? Of course not. If I ask for advice I am after informed opinion from people who have "been there done that" so that I can decide whether to give it a go or not, after which I make my own decision.
Forum advice to upgrade/system envy : There is a good deal of tongue in cheek banter, usually along the lines of "go on, you know you want to", which is fun. I doubt that this has ever pushed anyone into doing anything they wouldn't have done anyway. It would be sad to think that anyone would upgrade to impress anyone on the forum, anyway, for every person that says "the new 250 is awesome" there is another that says "the new 250 is gobshite" so it would be a hard game to win. The general consensus seems to be that the CDS3 is fantastic, but you would have to be pretty dumb to order one on that basis, especially as in a few months there will be people saying that the CDX2 is better.
Sorry, wrote too much ..
[This message was edited by Minky on THURSDAY 22 May 2003 at 09:59.]
Posted on: 22 May 2003 by Roland Huu
Richie,
Best post I've read for awhile in the forum. Best of all it's all true!!
Roland
Best post I've read for awhile in the forum. Best of all it's all true!!
Roland
Posted on: 22 May 2003 by ejl
Wow.
After reading all of this, I'm ashamed to admit that my primary desideratum in upgrading has been to get a system that plays really f*cking loud without losing coherence, overheating, or breaking.
After reading all of this, I'm ashamed to admit that my primary desideratum in upgrading has been to get a system that plays really f*cking loud without losing coherence, overheating, or breaking.
Posted on: 22 May 2003 by Rico
quote:
My amp comes in three boxes and hums if I use the toaster.
Mike
thats (as I'm sure you're aware) a sure indication that you need a spur.
Andy - good to see The The in everyday use!
Richie T - the new stuff is way better. If you're happy to settle then so be it - you've clearly made a value judgement.
Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 22 May 2003 by Minky
quote:
Originally posted by ejl:
Wow.
After reading all of this, I'm ashamed to admit that my primary desideratum in upgrading has been to get a system that plays really f*cking loud without losing coherence, overheating, or breaking.
Why didn't I say that ?
Posted on: 22 May 2003 by Paul Ranson
WRT Mike's toaster hum Rico said,
The underlying point surely is that you shouldn't need a spur. It's the acceptance of 'spurs', 'spikes', 'run in', 'warm up', 'puckism', 'three boxes' etc that is a root cause of upgraditis. Installation and usage issues that get in the way of simply having a musical system.
I'm a big fan of the idea of the Linn Classik with a pair of small wall mounts.
Paul
quote:
thats (as I'm sure you're aware) a sure indication that you need a spur.
The underlying point surely is that you shouldn't need a spur. It's the acceptance of 'spurs', 'spikes', 'run in', 'warm up', 'puckism', 'three boxes' etc that is a root cause of upgraditis. Installation and usage issues that get in the way of simply having a musical system.
I'm a big fan of the idea of the Linn Classik with a pair of small wall mounts.
Paul
Posted on: 22 May 2003 by Twelveeyedfish
Hi,
I have a CD3.5, Nait3, linn Axis/Basic+/1012, Kan Is.
I have a small upgrade route planned - Buy a flatcap and finally get my hands on some NACA5. Then it's gonna be stuck on a rack (probably the Atacama at £120) for aesthetic reasons - the choice of Atacama being principle - supports do improve matters for things like the turntable and so if I stick it on something it may as well be a budget support. After that I'll be upgrading by hopping to Argos and buying more CD racks/shelves for LPs.
The only reason to consider an upgrade past that point is if I move into a house where my speakers are too small.
I know hifi is a hobby. It is to me... it is to you lot. Downgrading might have it's pleasure. But tell you what... get another hobby - something like running a Jazz or blues night at your local. Perhaps then you'll see why going OTT is pointless! Nothing beats the real thing.
The thing that stopped me from wasting my money on hifi was seeing the jazz band at Huddersfield station on a regular basis.
If you have the cash, you may as well spend it. You can't take it with you. But make new friends at the pub. Drink a few ales. I know you all like quality beer because I read it in the other forum!
Mr Minky - I completely agree. The idea that you feel you can get close to live is a myth! Enjoy the live, settle for hifi when you can't be there (or where the artist is dead)!
Andrew
there are 10 types of people in this world... those who can read binary, and those who can't...
I have a CD3.5, Nait3, linn Axis/Basic+/1012, Kan Is.
I have a small upgrade route planned - Buy a flatcap and finally get my hands on some NACA5. Then it's gonna be stuck on a rack (probably the Atacama at £120) for aesthetic reasons - the choice of Atacama being principle - supports do improve matters for things like the turntable and so if I stick it on something it may as well be a budget support. After that I'll be upgrading by hopping to Argos and buying more CD racks/shelves for LPs.
The only reason to consider an upgrade past that point is if I move into a house where my speakers are too small.
I know hifi is a hobby. It is to me... it is to you lot. Downgrading might have it's pleasure. But tell you what... get another hobby - something like running a Jazz or blues night at your local. Perhaps then you'll see why going OTT is pointless! Nothing beats the real thing.
The thing that stopped me from wasting my money on hifi was seeing the jazz band at Huddersfield station on a regular basis.
If you have the cash, you may as well spend it. You can't take it with you. But make new friends at the pub. Drink a few ales. I know you all like quality beer because I read it in the other forum!
Mr Minky - I completely agree. The idea that you feel you can get close to live is a myth! Enjoy the live, settle for hifi when you can't be there (or where the artist is dead)!
Andrew
there are 10 types of people in this world... those who can read binary, and those who can't...
Posted on: 22 May 2003 by Pearcy
Wow Richie T -great post
-I had a fairly expensive bi-amped Linn system, & decided to downgrade as during the 10-15yrs yrs I'd been upgrading my system I hadn't become anymore happy -probably less happy if I'm being totally honest. The more you invest in your hi-fi, the more you expect from it & the more you upgrade the more the money difference 'snowballs' & the performance increases become less. -As we go up the tree, I;m sure our ears become ever more finely tuned, as most 'non-hifi' people wouldn't be able to tell the difference & yet I know for a fact I can blind test the difference bewtween certain interconnects & speaker cable etc.
Having now 'downgraded' to a CD5/Nait5/FC2/Credo's & pocketed the £3000 difference from selling my old kit I am far happier -the new system's overall perfomance if probably 85-90% of the old system (in fact better in some area's!). -I had previously invested a couple of grand in 'proper' supports for all of the kit & also have a dedicated spur, so I also feel that so called 'lesser kit' actually has more to gain from such attention.
I am now buying more music than ever & have no plans to upgrade
-I had a fairly expensive bi-amped Linn system, & decided to downgrade as during the 10-15yrs yrs I'd been upgrading my system I hadn't become anymore happy -probably less happy if I'm being totally honest. The more you invest in your hi-fi, the more you expect from it & the more you upgrade the more the money difference 'snowballs' & the performance increases become less. -As we go up the tree, I;m sure our ears become ever more finely tuned, as most 'non-hifi' people wouldn't be able to tell the difference & yet I know for a fact I can blind test the difference bewtween certain interconnects & speaker cable etc.
Having now 'downgraded' to a CD5/Nait5/FC2/Credo's & pocketed the £3000 difference from selling my old kit I am far happier -the new system's overall perfomance if probably 85-90% of the old system (in fact better in some area's!). -I had previously invested a couple of grand in 'proper' supports for all of the kit & also have a dedicated spur, so I also feel that so called 'lesser kit' actually has more to gain from such attention.
I am now buying more music than ever & have no plans to upgrade