Neat Petite 3 + Gravitas or B&W N805s?

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Originally posted by zero:
Hey there,
I'm looking to make a considerable upgrade from my B&W CDM7 (S1) speakers, which I currently use in conjunction with a Naim NAC92/NAP180 system, I've singled out two prime candidates (Neat Petite 3s with Gravitas Isobaric bases or B&W Nautilus 804s), but would like some opinions on them before I go to audition - which of the two would you guys go with? And of course I'm open to suggestions of other fine speakers around the £2500 mark!

Many thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Francis

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B&W805

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I've singled out two prime candidates (Neat Petite 3s with Gravitas Isobaric bases or B&W Nautilus 804s), but would like some opinions on them before I go to audition - which of the two would you guys go with?

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Hi there. Interesting, as I've had experience with both recently. In the context of a Naim system like yours, you really want a speaker which can do PRaT, and simply put, the B&W speakers aren't the best at this. The Petite 3/Gravitas is quite rare to find - in fact, your timing is exemplary as I've got a pair to sell s/h (£900, boxed, exc++, cherry, plus matching Mana custom stands at £175, or both for £1050).

However, though I happen to be selling my own pair (which I have lived with for two years now) I'd recommend that you weigh up what you find important and/or desirable in a speaker. In a nutshell, I can give you briefly the comparative strengths and weaknesses of the four speakers (counting P/G/Mana as a seperate speaker to P/G alone, and also P on its own, plus of course the B&W 805s).

B&W 805 Signature
Nice finish, sexy cabinet. Tweeter extends up to 30KHz. Extended bass (for a standmount). Times well for a B&W but by no means state-of-the-art =- a long way short IMHO. Nice midrange - good with vocal and images very well. A detailed, delicate treble, though it sounds very hifi and I found it wearing.

Petite III on its own
Very fast speaker with right electronics (e.g. Naim, DNM, etc.) though on its own is a 4 ohm load which might not suit all amps. Surprisingly sophisticated for a relatively ordinary looking speaker. Very cohesive sound, and capable of great transparency. Timing is more or less spot-on, Kan-style. Bass can be a little one-note without Gravitas. Bass not as extended as other options. Goes surprisingly loud without distortion. A true 'flat-earth/round-earth horizon' speaker - i.e. excelling in both areas. A true modern classic.

Petite/Gravitas
Take the strengths of the above and cure the slight tendency for one-note bass - although better amps can also help here. Extends down to a subjective 30Hz or so. Addition of Gravitas makes P/G combination a much easier load, though the addition of isobarically loaded bass (very tight and punchy - infinitely better than that of the B&W 805s, by the way) might be too much for smaller room. P+G together makes a reasonably tall speaker - 105cm - which might not be best for WAF, though IMHO the cherry finish works well. Drawback to P/G is need for jumper cable between P and G. A truly magnificent combination, and at an rrp of around £2500 all-in, it's a far better purchase than the B&W, though the B&W probably would impress more on a purely hifi level due to its extended treble.

Petite/Gravitas on Mana
The golden combination. True bliss for sensible money. The addition of the Mana stands may have the drawback of raising the height of the speaker overall to 115cm, but it's worth it. Petite claws back all of the hifi attributes over the B&W, but with PRaT and an overwhelming musicality that's rare. Bass becomes super-tight - perhaps a better option for the slightly smaller room.

Summary
Though the B&W isn't a bad speaker, it's a different approach to the Neat and is more about hifi than music. Petite/Gravitas is a fantastic combination, bettered only by speakers at a lot more money. Mana works wonders under P/G, though I never had the chance to try it under the B&W. P/G won't be for everyone aesthetically - though sonically it treads a unique middle-ground of superb PRaT with round-earth imaging and detail.

I know this probably comes across as the 'hard sell' but don't take it that way - I would be delighted to sell my P/G/Mana to you if you were interested, but as I have a trade-in offer of £900 on P/G (w/o Mana) from my dealer against a new pre-amp, I'm not that bothered whether it sells now or later. However, I'd rather sell it privately than have my dealer profit, if you know what I mean.

It's obviously up to you, but you can have P/G/Mana for a real giveaway price if you're interested, and save £1500ish over the B&Ws. THat would allow you to upgrade to a s/h 82, say... not a bad idea, is it?

Reply back if interested, or if you want any more info about any of the combinations I've mentioned.

ALl the best,

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

TC said;

"Petite III on its own Very fast speaker with right electronics (e.g. Naim, DNM, etc.) though on its own is a 4 ohm load..."

The Petite is actually a nominal 8 Ohm load, with 6 Ohm minimum in the bass. It only drops to 4 Ohms up at around 20kHz, which shouldn't worry any decent amplifier.

Bob Surgeoner/Neat Acoustics Ltd.

I stand corrected. Whatever it's load, it's still a fantastic wee speaker and you'd be daft to buy a B&W over P/G...

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Sorry, just re-read and saw you're looking at the B&W 804 rather than the 805sig. Basically, 804 (which I also have heard) is a lesser 805s with bass. Same verdict - Petite/Gravitas is my recommendation.

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

I just had the dilema of buying a new pair of speakers. I am new to naim and dont claim to be an audiophile, and dont really know about the ins and outs of PRAT etc, in fact i dont really care so long as it sounds good to my ears. I tested a number of speakers originally up to the £2000 range including Allaes, Spendor 8s, JMLab etc, but after listening to the Nautilus 804s they were so clearly the better speaker that i just had to find another £500 in order to buy them. If you can demo them do it, they are fantastic and dont let anyone tell you different.

Craig,

Did you do a comparison between the Neat Petite III/Gravitas and the B&W 804? If so, where id you do this? I have to admit to only managing a comparison of 805s against P/G - I've only ever heard the 804 at a dealer's.

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Another possibility if you're thinking about B&W N804s are Dynaudio Contour 1.8MkIIs. Similar sort of frequency range, but without the B&W tweeter (which may be good or bad depending on whether you like it).

I have these and think they're a great all-round speaker, assuming your room is big enough. My new living room is 12ftx16ft and that's really a bit small for them to work at their best.

don't do anything until you get a hi-cap for your 92 (unless you already have)

2nd hand ones go for around £400.00

[QUOTE]Originally posted by keithy:
don't do anything until you get a hi-cap for your 92 (unless you already have)

I agree 100%.
Top Cat's offer also looks nice, might save you a lot of money for buying music or doing some other nice things.

good luck

Yeah, a hicap will enhance the bass, mid, and treble greatly, clean up congestion and distortion, and make the music more coherent. You don'y know how good your current speakers are without a hicap - you really owe yourself a listen.

If you don't hear the hicap effect, do this dem:

1) listen without the hicap for a few minutes.
2) listen with a hicap to the same music for a few minutes.
3) pull the hicap out and listen for a few seconds - if life suddenly seems less worthwhile, you should buy a hicap....

Regards.

Phil

Another Neat option would be the Vito -- which is something like the Petite/Gravitas integrated into a single cabinet. The single cabinet approach is quite a bit more aesthetically appealing than the P/G two box arrangement. Bob could speak to the relative sonic differences between the Vito and P/G better than I. Suffice to say the Vito is a fantastic speaker: fast, tuneful, detailed, and obviously a good deal more full range than the Petite. If one didn't already own the Petite (or if one wasn't getting a terrific deal on a P/G combo) it seems to me it would make more sense to go with the Vito than the P/G. Musically, the Vito would be far more engaging over the long haul than either the B&W 804 or 805.

Just want to point out that Petite+Gravitas is probably spec-for-spec the same as Vito on paper, though in my (limited) experience with the Vito I'd say it has more 'balls' versus P/G's subtlety and finesse. Both are very good speakers indeed at full rrp, and my P/G are superb value at the asking price, even if I do say so myself

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

I really luv my Vitos. Currently being fed by a P3 or cd5/hicap/72/140. Had the new 200 & 250 in for a try. The 250 was pretty amazing & the Vitos riped & snorted, cooed & soothed in a most impressive way. Very fast, very coherant, amazing control & articulation, unfatiging, totally involving & emotionally captivating, grande' cahones, & very, very fun!

Hope to 'target' a 282/250 combo soon.

Ditto the Neats over the B&W's. The Neat/Naim combo just does a superlative job in communicating the music.

Regis