The new black DAC has arrived...

Docmark, i wouldn't fiddle with the eq in Amarra, i find the 'playlist' mode is a bit better as is 'hog' in pure music imho.
Regarding dacs the Weiss makes the naim seem frey and dynamically compresed in comparison.
JS the Weiss doesn't 'change the sound' it is just an improvement, I am sure when Naim release their 'reference' dac you will not say that it has 'changed the sound' you will just be saying how much better it is!

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regarding dacs the Weiss makes the naim seem frey and dynamically compresed in comparison.

I'm glad I don't have your system if it makes the Naim DAC sound dynamically compressed - does your system sound shrill and tiring then?

I'm sure you just mean your prefer one presentation over another.
Surely both are very good products.

I would not say Naim makes better amplifiers than conrad-johson for example, but I can say I prefer the Naim sound - both are great products.

I suspect the same is true of Weiss, Chord and Naim in the DAC stakes.

If Naim release a better DAC then I'll be very curious as to what they have done to improve it .... possibly removing its PSU and making full use of the 555PS, possibly not using standard chips and introducing programmable gate arrays, possibly .......... however, the current Naim DAC would take some beating even for Naim.

This room is getting a bit like 1980s computer magazine discussions - my Commodore Amiga knocks spots off your Sinclair QL ....... oh well some things will never change.

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the Weiss doesn't 'change the sound' it is just an improvement

surely should read Weiss doesn't 'change the sound' it is just different .... curious.

The Chord DAC definitely does change the sound and in some some circumstances can be more enjoyable, but overall I prefer the Naim DAC.

Everything is subjective when it comes to listening assessments .......

I also always took "night and day" differences especially for digital sources with a grain of salt.

When I changed from DAC2 to Naim DAC + PS, I thought the Naim DAC was somewhat more open sounding and presented a slighted better soundstage. But overall it was not easy to tell them apart, and I believe the move was sort of a lateral one since they are both very very good.

But the DAC202 does seem to be engaging me a lot more to the music, sounding both crystalline and buttery smooth. I haven't spent enough time with it to be completely sure if I will get over it. But one other bonus is the headphone amp performance, it is the best I have ever heard. When compared to the Headline+NAPSC, it definitely is in a different league altogether. That one I am quite sure.

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Originally posted by DHT:
Docmark, i wouldn't fiddle with the eq in Amarra, i find the 'playlist' mode is a bit better as is 'hog' in pure music imho.
Regarding dacs the Weiss makes the naim seem frey and dynamically compresed in comparison.
JS the Weiss doesn't 'change the sound' it is just an improvement, I am sure when Naim release their 'reference' dac you will not say that it has 'changed the sound' you will just be saying how much better it is!

But not in a completely different league. I'm not even saying that I prefer the Naim as I haven't compared and I like Weiss. I own the Naim. Hyperbole just detracts from discussion. It's new and like all kit, some will like it and some will prefer something else. Last I heard, you were into one clock and no oversampling as absolutes since that's what your dac2 did. The 202 uses both of these things. Not to the extent of the Ndac but has a similar approach to decoding. It also borrows the TC dice chip for firewire. The DAC itself is a paralleled sabre in a circuit that's quite similar to that of 'Twisted Pair Audio's' Buffalo 2. These are good solutions for computer sourced audio but they haven't reinvented the wheel. Proof is in the performance which so far has been reported to be quite good. In general, I've found a paralleled Sabre chip to be a bit euphonic in character but that is not to say it sounds like that here. I haven't heard the DAC202 and implementation is everything. Pink Fish has a few threads on it.

I am not comforted by the headphone out being so different either. I'm sure it's good and you can prefer it but...

I agree with the way in which you put this and understand that you can enjoy your new DAC even more than the Naim DAC, whether I would I know not - never having heard ought from Weiss

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But one other bonus is the headphone amp performance, it is the best I have ever heard.

No advantage for me, as I doubt it would energise my Stax; however I can understand the appeal for those who still use dynamic headphones

I'm with js on this - I agree with virtually all his posts.

no Rotf not different just much better, try and hear one for yourself,mine is ordered.

Any reports yet James. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the 202.

when i mention other products they delete them, all this is about the 202. tutu it may be better than the dac

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Originally posted by DHT:
no Rotf not different just much better, try and hear one for yourself,mine is ordered.

No need I'm very happy with what I've got (if I hear one I hear one if I don't I don't). It comes across to me as if you are trying to justify your purchase.

I don't believe at this level one well engineered product is better than other as it assumes on non-existent linear scale; I do believe an individual will prefer one product to another.

I hope you enjoy what you've bought - I sure it is a good product; that it is better than products by Naim or Chord, I seriously doubt, but that that you may prefer it in your system I don't deny.

ATB Rotf

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when i mention other products they delete them

In many respects I don't see why a discussion about a Weiss DAC is not on a Weiss forum, but I understand that James was expressing his enthusiasm for how it works in a Naim system, which is no different from somebody like me saying how much I like a Stax system with a Naim CDX2 as a source for late night listening. So I think to post about his experience is valid and useful. James is also very helpful with his posts on this topic so it is always interesting to read what he has to say.

I do find another poster saying it is better than a Naim DAC slightly strange and misguided and if only they would add it was only their opinion rather than some attempt at an objective statement then I'd take it seriously. It makes me suspect they like to think whatever they have bought is best. None of which matters, not as long as they enjoy what they've bought.

Me I doubt there is a best DAC or best anything else in this game, but fortunately for us all there are some very good products around ....

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I do find another poster saying it is better than a Naim DAC slightly strange and misguided and if only they would add it was only their opinion rather than some attempt at an objective statement then I'd take it seriously. It makes me suspect they like to think whatever they have bought is best. None of which matters, not as long as they enjoy what they've bought.

Yes it is definitely my opinion of how it sounds in my humble system. I think it is implicit in all comments here when people tells how much better the addition of a Supercap Vs a HiCap, or a 202 upgrade to 282. But somehow nobody comments on the objectivity of when those are mentioned.

Regardless of the above, why is it strange and misguided when a twice the price hot Weiss DAC *seems to* sound better than another hot nDAC at half the price?

Like I mentioned elsewhere, Naim never claimed the nDAC as the best DAC in the world. They would not be so vain, or may be they need to leave some room for a reference DAC.

Anyway commenting a non Naim DAC in the context of a 90% Naim system is not that out of place IMO. Similar to commenting on Neat speakers in a Naim system.