Aren't Americans wonderful?

Posted by: Jeremy Marchant on 02 August 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm.

"There is an intellectual ugliness as well: a dark age lurking, even when the president has been to Harvard. The darkness epitomised by the recent death in Wisconsin of a little girl who should still be alive.
Eleven-year-old Kara Neumann was suffering from type one diabetes, an auto-immune condition my son was recently diagnosed with.
Her family, for religious reasons, decided not to take her to hospital. They prayed by her bedside and the little girl died.
The night before she died - and she would have been in intense discomfort - her parents called the founder of a religious website and prayed with him on the telephone. But they did not call a doctor.
If Kara had been taken to hospital, even at that late stage, insulin could have saved her. She could have been home in a few days and chirpy by the end of the week, as my son was.
It was an entirely preventable death caused, let's be frank, by some of the Stone Age superstition that stalks the richest and most technologically advanced nation on earth. "

(Justin Webb, BBC correspondent, here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/pro...spondent/8176448.stm)
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by 555
This is a truly terrible story,
but isn't generalising about a whole nation of people based on the actions of a few religious extremists also simple ignorance Jeremy?
The UK has its share of sick people prepared to kill in the name of religion.

Correction/Edit: I now understand there were a few people involved, not one.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Jeremy Marchant
quote:
Originally posted by 555:
but isn't generalising about a whole nation of people based on the actions of one person also simple ignorance Jeremy?

Yes.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by mikeeschman
If my mind was a blunt instrument with a dull blade, I would spend an hour or so digging up English horror stories to post here.

Thankfully, I am among friends here, and I know it.

300 million people live in the U.S., from everywhere on Earth, and are free to do pretty much as they please. You think that's always going to be pretty?

One thing's for sure, your story has nothing to do with my life.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Mat Cork
It amazes me that in a world where racism is generally regarded as a bad thing, it seems fine to go around making racist remarks about the US.

I remember Alan Wicker once saying that the two constants in the world are that people love the Irish and hate the English...there must be a reason for this, but it doesn't mean it's ok to suggest all Brits, are sellfish, small minded, risk averse, boring sorts...we're clearly not, it's just a crude generalisation.

The US from the blues, jazz, rock, hip hop, environmental thinking, literature etc has given the world a lot, but of course it's given us a lot of rubbish as well. Very much like the UK I guess.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Exiled Highlander
Thanks guys, I saw the title of this thread and even before I opened it I felt that I knew the type of stereotyping that it would contain.

Given that I lived there between 1997 and 2008 I think I have a pretty even view of the US, the good and the bad (and this was clearly bad).

However, the balanced responses from Mat, 555 and Mike prevented me from having to vent.

Cheers

Jim
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Onthlam
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Marchant:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm.

"There is an intellectual ugliness as well: a dark age lurking, even when the president has been to Harvard. The darkness epitomised by the recent death in Wisconsin of a little girl who should still be alive.
Eleven-year-old Kara Neumann was suffering from type one diabetes, an auto-immune condition my son was recently diagnosed with.
Her family, for religious reasons, decided not to take her to hospital. They prayed by her bedside and the little girl died.
The night before she died - and she would have been in intense discomfort - her parents called the founder of a religious website and prayed with him on the telephone. But they did not call a doctor.
If Kara had been taken to hospital, even at that late stage, insulin could have saved her. She could have been home in a few days and chirpy by the end of the week, as my son was.
It was an entirely preventable death caused, let's be frank, by some of the Stone Age superstition that stalks the richest and most technologically advanced nation on earth. "

(Justin Webb, BBC correspondent, here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/pro...spondent/8176448.stm)


Jeremy-
Please look at your own history books and get back to me.

We hold these freedoms extremely close to our hearts. One of them to practice our own religion without persecution.
Sometimes, I do shake my head in disbelief.

Just remember,it ain't bad news unless it happens to you.
M
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Jim Lawson
quote:
Aren't Americans wonderful?

For the most part, yes, we are.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Exiled Highlander
Jim
quote:
For the most part, yes, we are.
Well that helped global perception Americans! Winker

Jim
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Onthlam
quote:
Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
Jim
quote:
For the most part, yes, we are.
Well that helped global perception Americans! Winker

Jim



Jim-
From your own experience you know we are different. We work,eat,and play different. We move about,and communicate different. "The American dream", drives many of us to be different even within the same nation.
M
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Mat Cork
I think generalisations are such an iffy thing.

For some reason however, the UK at the moment (in certain quarters) think it's open season on USA bashing...like the UK is in any position to take the moral high ground.

We did however, give the world a bit of class, a bit of culture, a bit more than an otdog, you know what I mean.

Happy to go on the record, whenever I've been to the US, I've found most folk to be smashing.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Onthlam
quote:
Originally posted by Mat Cork:
I think generalisations are such an iffy thing.

For some reason however, the UK at the moment (in certain quarters) think it's open season on USA bashing...like the UK is in any position to take the moral high ground.

We did however, give the world a bit of class, a bit of culture, a bit more than an otdog, you know what I mean.

Happy to go on the record, whenever I've been to the US, I've found most folk to be smashing.



Different does not mean bad...Agreed.
To truly understand a culture. You must have been born into it(IMHO).
We all become one when times are truly bad.
M
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by 555
quote:
We all become one when times are truly bad.

We all become one what Marc?
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Onthlam
quote:
Originally posted by 555:
quote:
We all become one when times are truly bad.

We all become one what Marc?


When we need each other.
"One" as in singular.
M
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by 555
Thanks - that had completely gone over my head. Red Face
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Exiled Highlander
555

I think Marc may mean that despite the diverse nature of the country wrt politics, religion, class, race, creed or color (spelling deliberate) the US can unite in ways that surprise for a nation that's comprised of mongrels. There is a national pride that is missing in the UK. IMO of course.

Jim
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Mat Cork
It's not where you're from folks, it's where your at.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by 555
PD
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by 555
I agree in some ways Jim, although IME the quality of social cohesion in the U.K. is highly variable in different areas & communities.
It seems to me the more populous the area the greater the problem.
However there are pockets of resistance everywhere!
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Marchant:
quote:
Originally posted by 555:
but isn't generalising about a whole nation of people based on the actions of one person also simple ignorance Jeremy?

Yes.

So what you lack in education you make up for in self awareness?
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by mikeeschman
WOW. I feel guilty because I am relaxed and in a great mood today.
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Exiled Highlander
There must be something in the air/water!

JIm
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by 555
You should feel guilty smoking that Mike - put it out immediately!
Posted on: 02 August 2009 by Mike-B
Don't take this out on Americans; my contacts over there are as mad, embarrassed and shocked over this as we are here. This problem was (is) religion.
It happens all over. I had a cousin die – slowly over 12 or 15 years – leaving 4 kids. Why?? His religion forbad medication, doctors & hospitals. The churches fix was a daily dose of double god bothering and bible bashing, and he believed in it like nothing I have ever seen. He was unshakeable. But in his last 2 years he put his family thru 24/7 living hell, no details needed but something you would not wish on your worst enemy, it was unthinkable for your wife kids and the rest of the family. All for so called religion.
Posted on: 03 August 2009 by Roy T
With a big enough microscope most if not all groups or cultures may be made to seem rather odd in the eyes of others.
Posted on: 03 August 2009 by DAVOhorn
Dear All
in my lacal cafe recently i overheard 3 young Indian women discussing the horrors of the British Raj.

Obviously the Hindu Caste system is acceptable to them.

Racism and prejudice based upon race and religion are still prevalent in todays world.

Sadly.

In the 3 years i have been in Sydney i have observed increasing intolerance of others by the Muslim community and the now common, previously very rare, wearing of the FULL head dress. Women are now spat at by men if they are not wearing the Full headdress.

So what is going on here in Sydney. Before you guys shout at me i work with 2 colleagues of the Muslim faith and they find the increasing extremism in Sydney worrying.

I JUST WISH WE COULD ALL JUST GET ALONG, thanks Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks.

regards David
Posted on: 03 August 2009 by andy c
2 things - if you take the media report at its word its sooo generalist it isn't true. But the media has been like that for some time. We need some good reporting, good balanced reporting.

2nd - I've been to America twice, and found the American folk I've spoken to open, thoughtful and interesting. Most of all, I've found nearly all of the Americans I spoke to had manners.