Aren't Americans wonderful?
Posted by: Jeremy Marchant on 02 August 2009
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm.
"There is an intellectual ugliness as well: a dark age lurking, even when the president has been to Harvard. The darkness epitomised by the recent death in Wisconsin of a little girl who should still be alive.
Eleven-year-old Kara Neumann was suffering from type one diabetes, an auto-immune condition my son was recently diagnosed with.
Her family, for religious reasons, decided not to take her to hospital. They prayed by her bedside and the little girl died.
The night before she died - and she would have been in intense discomfort - her parents called the founder of a religious website and prayed with him on the telephone. But they did not call a doctor.
If Kara had been taken to hospital, even at that late stage, insulin could have saved her. She could have been home in a few days and chirpy by the end of the week, as my son was.
It was an entirely preventable death caused, let's be frank, by some of the Stone Age superstition that stalks the richest and most technologically advanced nation on earth. "
(Justin Webb, BBC correspondent, here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/pro...spondent/8176448.stm)
"There is an intellectual ugliness as well: a dark age lurking, even when the president has been to Harvard. The darkness epitomised by the recent death in Wisconsin of a little girl who should still be alive.
Eleven-year-old Kara Neumann was suffering from type one diabetes, an auto-immune condition my son was recently diagnosed with.
Her family, for religious reasons, decided not to take her to hospital. They prayed by her bedside and the little girl died.
The night before she died - and she would have been in intense discomfort - her parents called the founder of a religious website and prayed with him on the telephone. But they did not call a doctor.
If Kara had been taken to hospital, even at that late stage, insulin could have saved her. She could have been home in a few days and chirpy by the end of the week, as my son was.
It was an entirely preventable death caused, let's be frank, by some of the Stone Age superstition that stalks the richest and most technologically advanced nation on earth. "
(Justin Webb, BBC correspondent, here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/pro...spondent/8176448.stm)
Posted on: 14 August 2009 by winkyincanada
Yes. Oversimplified in the extreme. I have no interest in seeing a collapse of the US economy. A lot would suffer. But the relative rates of consumption and production between the US and its trading partners cannot continue. The US needs to either reduce consumption or increase production. There seems to be little prospect of either. On the production side, my company is trying to get a couple of major resource projects going in the US. There seems to be zero political will to see these (and other similar) projects progress. I seems that many don't think the US needs to physically produce anything at all to prosper. There appears to be a notion that wealth can be created by financial engineering and the service industries. I think this is short sighted in the extreme.
Posted on: 14 August 2009 by novelty
quote:Originally posted by winkyincanada:
But the relative rates of consumption and production between the US and its trading partners cannot continue. The US needs to either reduce consumption or increase production.
Well that will be a neat trick considering we don't produce anything and our economy depends on consumption.
Our country is run by interest groups and they've seen fit to rigging the game in their favor. We've seen the largest transfer of wealth in our nation's history in the last 15 years. Our middle class is being eradicated and it's going to cost us. Our fiscal, foreign, energy, and most domestic policies are abhorrent. Our greatest generation learned some tough lessons and we forgot them all. Americans by and large have become fat and stupid, an unfortunate byproduct of affluence. If not for our hegemonic currency i suppose it would've all crashed down by now.
Posted on: 15 August 2009 by Howlinhounddog
quote:What is the quality of heath care over in the UK, for say the average person?
quote:If you read the papers - it's rubbish
In my experience (which unfortunately for myself and other family members has been quite extensive over the past three years) - it's absolutely superb, magnificent even.
Mat is quite correct, It is easy in the UK to beat up the NHS, but the fact still remains that it is free for all at the point of need... It may not be all things to all people, there are strange post code anomalies. But none of us in the UK need fear falling ill and not being able to afford treatment.
Why would any right thinking American possibly argue against this basic principal for their countrymen?
Is it perhaps that healthcare in America is the largest earner in the country and the general populations voice is being twisted by vested interest. I have whatched the debate from the U.S. on the news here and have been appalled by the arguments made against Obama's plans (that IMHO do not go far enough).
American cousins, do your whole country a favour and socialise your medicare.
Charlie
Posted on: 15 August 2009 by Don Phillips
Well said Charlie.
Presumably Obama has got has calculations wrong - his proposals will cost only half as much as he thinks. Because the high principled Republicans will boycott the new system and insist on paying for their health care privately as before.
Or have I misjudged the Republicans?
Don
Presumably Obama has got has calculations wrong - his proposals will cost only half as much as he thinks. Because the high principled Republicans will boycott the new system and insist on paying for their health care privately as before.
Or have I misjudged the Republicans?
Don
Posted on: 15 August 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:Originally posted by Don Phillips:
Or have I misjudged the Republicans?
Don
You have misjudged the republicans. Their entire focus is to make sure it is never discussed.
Posted on: 15 August 2009 by Mat Cork
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...
Emma love, if only you'd thought about the sick and hungover...
Emma love, if only you'd thought about the sick and hungover...
Posted on: 15 August 2009 by Tonepub
[/QUOTE]
Mat is quite correct, It is easy in the UK to beat up the NHS, but the fact still remains that it is free for all at the point of need... It may not be all things to all people, there are strange post code anomalies. But none of us in the UK need fear falling ill and not being able to afford treatment.
Why would any right thinking American possibly argue against this basic principal for their countrymen?
Is it perhaps that healthcare in America is the largest earner in the country and the general populations voice is being twisted by vested interest. I have whatched the debate from the U.S. on the news here and have been appalled by the arguments made against Obama's plans (that IMHO do not go far enough).
American cousins, do your whole country a favour and socialise your medicare.
Charlie[/QUOTE]
What I'm hoping is that if we do get a socialized medical care system, they can do a better job of sorting out the potential abuses on both sides of the system.
One of our biggest problems is that we have a lot of rednecks that still subscribe to the "America is the best place in the world, love it or leave it" mentality instead of thinking that if we want to save our country, we all need to pull together and come up with some intelligent solutions that make sense in a 21'st Century global economy.
Has anyone seen the movie "Idiocracy"? I fear that is our fate. As Novelty said, we've become fat and stupid and it's true. I'm 50 years old and when I was in high school, there was one or two really overweight kids in my class of 550 people. It was seen as highly embarrassing to be 100 pounds overweight. (and get divorced or file for bankruptcy, etc. etc.)
My daughter is 16 years old and half the kids in her class are at LEAST 100 pounds overweight. And we've got Oprah on Television telling us that we don't need to work out or get in shape, we need to "celebrate our bigness".
Well, I for one have been carrying a small terrier around for too long and I'm making an effort to get rid of him by the end of the year.
And in the end, I might just move to the UK, higher taxes and all...
Mat is quite correct, It is easy in the UK to beat up the NHS, but the fact still remains that it is free for all at the point of need... It may not be all things to all people, there are strange post code anomalies. But none of us in the UK need fear falling ill and not being able to afford treatment.
Why would any right thinking American possibly argue against this basic principal for their countrymen?
Is it perhaps that healthcare in America is the largest earner in the country and the general populations voice is being twisted by vested interest. I have whatched the debate from the U.S. on the news here and have been appalled by the arguments made against Obama's plans (that IMHO do not go far enough).
American cousins, do your whole country a favour and socialise your medicare.
Charlie[/QUOTE]
What I'm hoping is that if we do get a socialized medical care system, they can do a better job of sorting out the potential abuses on both sides of the system.
One of our biggest problems is that we have a lot of rednecks that still subscribe to the "America is the best place in the world, love it or leave it" mentality instead of thinking that if we want to save our country, we all need to pull together and come up with some intelligent solutions that make sense in a 21'st Century global economy.
Has anyone seen the movie "Idiocracy"? I fear that is our fate. As Novelty said, we've become fat and stupid and it's true. I'm 50 years old and when I was in high school, there was one or two really overweight kids in my class of 550 people. It was seen as highly embarrassing to be 100 pounds overweight. (and get divorced or file for bankruptcy, etc. etc.)
My daughter is 16 years old and half the kids in her class are at LEAST 100 pounds overweight. And we've got Oprah on Television telling us that we don't need to work out or get in shape, we need to "celebrate our bigness".
Well, I for one have been carrying a small terrier around for too long and I'm making an effort to get rid of him by the end of the year.
And in the end, I might just move to the UK, higher taxes and all...
Posted on: 15 August 2009 by novelty
Obama supposedly cut a deal with the Pharma industry resulting in 2/3 of the public option getting funded from their end.
From a fiscal standpoint this is commendable but i can't help but wonder what the Pharma industry will get in return. Imo, the health of americans is not a priority with these folks.
From a fiscal standpoint this is commendable but i can't help but wonder what the Pharma industry will get in return. Imo, the health of americans is not a priority with these folks.
Posted on: 16 August 2009 by Howlinhounddog
quote:And in the end, I might just move to the UK, higher taxes and all...
Yeh, but for that we get a National Health Service.Add the cost of your healthcare onto your tax bill and....we're still getting screwed.
As an aside, I noticed a small item on the news this morning saying that almost half of the shadow cabinet voted to state in the Conservative manifesto that they are up for dismantaling the NHS (that'll get 'em elected). I guess as a country we have only one real family gem left to sell off to the highest (lowest) bidder. Still it worked before, and lets face it, as an aspiring Cabinet member, the sell off of the NHS is really the only way to ensure a decent non-executive post for when you finally give up politics to spend more time with your family. After all who'd want a non-exec. post with a bank!
Posted on: 16 August 2009 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
My face-to-face experience of US Americans is based on two weeks working with the Indiana National Guard. ( C Coy 1/152 Inf. ) The ones I met where great guys if somewhat naive.
I could not help grinning at the wonderfully inept way that Steven Hawkins was drgged into the furore; if he'd been a Brit, he'd be dead by now.
M
I could not help grinning at the wonderfully inept way that Steven Hawkins was drgged into the furore; if he'd been a Brit, he'd be dead by now.
M
Posted on: 18 August 2009 by mudwolf
It's all so disgusting, I send emails and phone calls but I don't watch the evening news it's so depressing. I just stick to music or Netflicks movies.
Posted on: 18 August 2009 by pcstockton
Rip on America all you want losers. You really need to be hating on those who wear crosses and call themselves Christian.... Talk about Stone Age.
Shit, we left Britain because of people like that. It looks like a few jumped on the boat.
Shit, we left Britain because of people like that. It looks like a few jumped on the boat.
Posted on: 19 August 2009 by Exiled Highlander
PC
Jim
Who here is ripping on the US? Almost all of the posts here have been supportive. Mind you, calling your fellow forum members "losers" isn't going to help now is it?quote:Rip on America all you want losers.
Jim
Posted on: 19 August 2009 by Don Phillips
PCStockton, yes, come on old chap!
No offence meant - there are good and bad folk in both our countries. You could get me just as heated when talking about the follies of Tony Blair as those of George Bush.
And as for hating those who wear crosses and call themselves Christian - there are quite a number in the states as well - who don't even believe in the Stone Age.
Felicitations from Don, sunny downtown York
No offence meant - there are good and bad folk in both our countries. You could get me just as heated when talking about the follies of Tony Blair as those of George Bush.
And as for hating those who wear crosses and call themselves Christian - there are quite a number in the states as well - who don't even believe in the Stone Age.
Felicitations from Don, sunny downtown York
Posted on: 19 August 2009 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:
Rip on America all you want losers. You really need to be hating on those who wear crosses and call themselves Christian.... Talk about Stone Age.
Shit, we left Britain because of people like that. It looks like a few jumped on the boat.
What are you saying? Bit stream - of -consciousness for me.