ken's 252 update...

Ken,

How is the 252 coming on ?

Graham.

Not a lad any longer and not from London!

quote:

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Originally posted by London Lad:
Ken,

How is the 252 coming on ?

Graham.

Not a lad any longer and not from London!

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dare i suggest that the 252 run-in process is much more obvious than i remember with the 52?
as i said above, the thing is mellowing down very nicely indeed and i am beginning to hear what it does better than 52. but right now, the 252 lacks the beguiling warmth of the legendary 52, although i feel it wont be long before the 252 catches up and surpasses it.

i will post another update next wednesday, thats after 2 weeks, but i am told by people i trust that this thing will take up to 5 weeks to fully settle down.

overall, i feel i know where the 252 is heading, so i have absolutely no regrets at all replacing my 52 with 252. (well, perhaps slight regrets on visual mismatch with the rest of my gear... )

more later...

enjoy

ken

We all know that the kit has a run in period but when it is your kit you tend to worry a bit more.

My CDS3 is now 6 weeks and it is still improving.

You have just got to give it time.

It will be worth it.

Regards

Mick

I've just had quite a major upgrade so I have a number of items running in. I know it will all come good in the end but as you say when its your own kit

Graham.

Not a lad any longer and not from London!

Hi Ken

Don't forget to run the digital interconnect close to the Burndy if possible (as recommended in the manual) to minimise RFI and maximise performance.

Can you hear any difference with the display off?

DIN collars undone?

6 to 8 weeks for the Full Monty.

Don't forget to run the digital interconnect close to the Burndy if possible (as recommended in the manual) to minimise RFI and maximise performance.

because of the way my system is set up such that the powered components are on one rack and the non-powered on the other, this more or less just happens without trying. put it this way, i would have to make an effort to make sure these cables DONT run close.

Can you hear any difference with the display off?

i havent tried this yet. will try after run in process is more or less complete.

DIN collars undone?

phew, its hot in there...

6 to 8 weeks for the Full Monty. sounds about right, although you can begin to appreciate part of the the magic much sooner than that.

many thanks to you and mick for "encouragement".

to think i have to go through this all over again with the 552?? ha ha...

enjoy

ken

hi folks:

its 18 days since my 252 arrived. i thought i'd let you know how i'm getting on with this preamp.

there is good news, and then there is bad news, and then there is good news.

good news first:

- low level background details are a lot clearer - i can certainly hear musical details that i never heard with my 52 (e.g. voice over on Baaba Maal's "missing you", track 6 had an almost startling presence)
- instrument separation increased

but more importantly:

- inflexions and other musical nuances much more evident; there is more shape to the music (contrasts in dynamics (pp to ff) and speed variations are much easier to pick up and appreciate)
- fuller note values


now the bad news:

since last wednesday 4th feb, the pre-amp took a turn for the worse. i wasnt bothered about its apparent lack of warmth -- i knew this would come with time, but i was concerned about and a certain “dryness” to the sound; which suddenly became evident, especially on voice. this was quite worrying as the guy i had sold my cdsii to was coming to pick it up last saturday and i had promised to give him a demo. i was concerned that it would be misleading for him to hear my excellent cdsii through the 252. as it happens, i used a nac112 and that worked fine - the cdsii shone through, the buyer was happy; so i have no cd player now; just lp12 and nat02 as sources. but that's how i started anyway...

now the good news:

well, since last night, listening to jazz fm, i noticed that the dryness was much less apparent; not only that, the sound had taken on a much more "interesting" character that made me want to listen to it. prior to this, i had more or less given up on radio especially. the sound is also now much more "off speaker" -- i have to come close to the sbl's to tell that they are actually playing. and there is some warmth beginning to thaw the previous ice cold presentation quite obviously.

i have to say, i was beginning to be worried. it does seem that this new gear has a much more evident warm up process, which demands a lot more patience. or else the process of disconnecting it and connecting a nac112 cleaned something -- although the affect wasnt immediate? dunno. i really hope this 252 has no more tricks up its dins. cant take it.

right now, this is a definite upgrade on the 52; but i am still very curious about how far the 552 takes things.

will keep you posted, if there is interest...

enjoy

ken

it does seem that this new gear has a much more evident warm up process, which demands a lot more patience.

I noticed that the upper ranges of naim need more than 6 weeks for burn-in.

Right now you are in the worst period. Patience is the word.

After a month your fears and doubts will go away.

Emil

52, 252, dryness?

Hmmmm... I've been going through a similar thing with my 52, which I re-installed just over a week ago. At first it seemed a bit rolled-off and shut-in, but over the weekend there (at approx. 1 week after power-down) things took a definite turn for the better.

Now it's sounding great again, I guess patience is the order of the day...

Enjoy!

John

hi ken,
very interested to hear about your 252 as i hope to get one in future. you say you sold your cds2, for how much ?? and are you going for a new cds3??
what are you running with the 252. ( 250s )?
keep us informed. p.s. nice problem to have me thinks, good luck
scotty

quote:

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Originally posted by scottyhammer:
hi ken,
very interested to hear about your 252 as i hope to get one in future. you say you sold your cds2, for how much ?? and are you going for a new cds3??
what are you running with the 252. ( 250s )?
keep us informed. p.s. nice problem to have me thinks, good luck
scotty

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many thanks for interest. yes, i am going for cds3, but i will wait until the 252 is fully run in. and in any case, "she" needs to approve this huge expenditure. and i need to figure out how to square the circle -- since we also need to do our kitchen, and bathroom!!

yes, i am running active 250's into sbl's. have a look at my profile for more details.

dont rely on my experiences to decide whether you should go for 252 or not. its very early days and i may put you off by being a bit negative sometimes because of the rollercoaster runin cycle. if you can, the best thing is for you to dem a well run-in warmed-up unit at your dealers, against your 52 and see (ooops, hear) what you you like. but if you insist on asking me anyway, i will say YES, go for it!!

nice problem to have? a few days ago, my sense of humour (well, the little i have) completely deserted me and i really wasnt sure anymore. however, now things seem to be heading in the right direction, i am a bit more relaxed and i can start to dream up all sorts of words to describe the sound of this amp...

thanks to AllenB who has confirmed that he went through similar experience with his 252...

enjoy

ken

quote:

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Originally posted by Top Cat:
52, 252, dryness?

Hmmmm... I've been going through a similar thing with my 52, which I re-installed just over a week ago. At first it seemed a bit rolled-off and shut-in, but over the weekend there (at approx. 1 week after power-down) things took a definite turn for the better.

Now it's sounding great again, I guess patience is the order of the day...

Enjoy!

John

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john, many thanks.

i recall reading a lot of negative reports on the 252 from hifi show attendees and others. their negative descriptions of the 252 is almost exactly what i was hearing last week, which makes me suspect that the equipment wasnt fully run in.

what i am hearing now is definitely a lot better and more "interesting" than last week.

the 52 is a serious pre-amp; i know, i used to own it!! good luck with the settling down. shouldnt take that long john...

enjoy

ken

quote:

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Originally posted by Emil F.:
_it does seem that this new gear has a much more evident warm up process, which demands a lot more patience._

I noticed that the upper ranges of naim need more than 6 weeks for burn-in.

Right now you are in the worst period. Patience is the word.

After a month your fears and doubts will go away.

Emil

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emil, many thanks...

enjoy

ken

thanks ken just knew the 252 would come good.
will do thorough demo as you advise.
all the best , scotty

Ken,

Interesting report on your experience of running in the 252. What concerned me was your curiosity around the 552. I am currently a 52 owner and have listened to the 552. Needless to say I am hooked and am going to take the plunge as soon as funds allow. My advice to you is not to listen to this preamp as you are almost certainly going to want one. That is unless you're prepared to let go of your 252! Second hand 252 anybody?!!!

Nigel

quote:

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Originally posted by NigelP:
Ken,

Interesting report on your experience of running in the 252. What concerned me was your curiosity around the 552. I am currently a 52 owner and have listened to the 552. Needless to say I am hooked and am going to take the plunge as soon as funds allow. My advice to you is not to listen to this preamp as you are almost certainly going to want one. That is unless you're prepared to let go of your 252! Second hand 252 anybody?!!!

Nigel

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ah, so you have listened to a 552 and you are hooked? probably now what i wanted to hear -- but almost everyone i know who has done the dem has "regreted" it -- because the urge to buy one is apparently quite hard to control

my curiosity is really to do with the fact that i feel the 252 behaves rather differently from the 52. as it is warming up, its characteristics present themselves in a very obvious manner - detail, seperation, stereo image (yes!), bass etc. i strongly suspect that the 552 will be rather more subtle in its presentation? this means my observations to date are at odds with what i have heard from some quarters -- i.e. that the 252 is a little laid back/polite/sanitised. at this stage of the run in -- so sign of all that. if anything, the opposite.

when i have the chance, and a benevolent dealer, i will compare the 552 to my fully run-in 252 and verify (or refute) my suspicion. its unlikely that the 552 will be in my radar any time soon. saving for a cd player right now since i have just sold my cds2.

many thanks for comments

enjoy

ken

I did the 552 dem last August, after it went back, the 52 sounded broken. The wait for the new 552 to be built was agony <g>

The 552 has been getting better all the time (much to my suprise,) now I have gone and ruined it all by demming a CDSiii - and so it all starts again

Derek

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quote:

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Originally posted by Derek Wright:
I did the 552 dem last August, after it went back, the 52 sounded broken. The wait for the new 552 to be built was agony <g>

The 552 has been getting better all the time (much to my suprise,) now I have gone and ruined it all by demming a CDSiii - and so it all starts again

Derek

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derek, many thanks.

when you bought your 552, did you also listen to the 252? if so, what were the (main) differences?

there is no danger that i will buy a 552 any time soon as the cdsiii will cause enough damage when i finally get "permission" to buy it. but i am very curious to know what it sounds like -- hence my question above.

other 552 owners, please jump in. i know we are not worthy, but...

enjoy

ken

Hi Ken,

feel free to read my comments about the 552 here.

Enjoy,

Hermann

Ken,

Here are my impressions of the 552 versus the 52. First of all, I have a CDS-II (which I adore), NAP500 and NBLs (which I love even more than the CDS-II). I have a fully laden LP12 as my other source. With this in mind, and only now that I know that I have the savings in sight, I listened to the CDS-III, 552/500, NBL combination. When I'm nearer to buying, I will bring the demo 552 back home to listen to in my system before parting with the cash.
What I really noticed about the 552 is its effortlessness. I often read in the magazines (mostly Hifi+) about a transparency and neutrality to the presentation. When I read this, I often what the hell are they talking about?! Well, I'm going to try to sum it up in a few sentences. I listened to Mighty Sam McClain's "Give it up to Love" and Brand X's "Born Ugly". The former is a highly touted xrcd from JVC and the latter a cheap but rather excellent recording of some early Phil Collins work. Track four on the first album entitled "Here I go Falling in Love Again" has Sam singing at the top of his voice which has my 52/500 struggling at high volume levels (around 10 O'clock on the volume control). There seems to be a harshness at the top of his voice which can sometimes cut into you. Turning the volume down makes this go away and my first impression was that the 500 was struggling to drive the speakers. When I played this track on the 552/500, however, I realised that this is not the case. The 552/500 combo worked through this effortlessly. Is it the CD player? No I don't think so. As I said I am yet to plug my CDS-II into the 552/500 combo but I believe that the most dramattic change here was the preamp.
Suddenly, I knew exactly what was meant by transparency and neutrality and I learned exactly how good the 500 really is. This preamp was clearly letting more music through without any doubt in my mind. The air seemed more full with music and high-hats and symbols sounded more realistic, vocals clearer and more natural and a guitar that felt right. Onto "Born Ugly" then. A track that you either love or hate from an album with similar attributes. This track is just awesome for testing the speed of a system. It is laden with drum work, heavy and fast bass guitar and lots of keyboards and symbols. Some of the music is played in harmony and some in total chaos in what I know affectionately as "free rock". This track showed me that the 552 is a very special preamp indeed. The CD only cost me a fiver but what a recording. My 52/500/NBL sounds good with this CD but I have always felt that something wasn't getting through. The 552 made up for this failing and not in a subtle way. Going back to my 52 left me a little frustrated and daunted (although I know that I still have a superb preamp). Naim have managed to achieve a work of art here and the acclaim that they are getting is thoroughly deserved. The CDS-III left me with a different impression. My take on this is that it's a rewrapped CDS-II with a couple of improvements. Better than the CDS-II but not something that would have me jumping to sell my CD player to go for the upgrade. I think I would rather wait to see if Naim come up with a no-budget limit CD player that will make the industry sit up and take notice like they are with the 552.
One final test with the 552 is to turn the volume up (with no music playing through) and listen to the level of white noise. Compared to other preamps in the line up, it is almost zero. Coupled with a reduction to (I believe) a quarter of the distortion is easy to see why this preamp is much better than anything else that Naim (or for that matter any other manufacturer) have produced. The best preamp in the world? Probably!

Enjoy your 252 - it will get better.

Nigel

Nigel

You`re not aiming for a job for some hi-fi mag are you?

Laurie S

quote:

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Originally posted by Hermann:
Hi Ken,

feel free to read my comments about the http://manaforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=462298155&f=172298155&m=8124085192&p=1 here.

Enjoy,

Hermann

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herman, will do, many thanks

enjoy

ken

Ken C - you asked if I listened to a 252 as part of the 552 move. - no I did not - no rational reason for not trying out the 252.

The descriptions I had read here and elsewhere of the 552 matched up with my experience with it so I decided to get the 552 after experiencing it.

The 52 sounded clouded or coloured cf the 552.

The 552 was still improving after 4 months, the subtleties of the texture of the instruments canstill can take me by surprise - it has encouraged me to get out several classical pieces that I had written off as boring - but now they are rich in detail and feeling.

Derek

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derek, many thanks:

..it has encouraged me to get out several classical pieces that I had written off as boring - but now they are rich in detail and feeling.

that statement alone makes the 552 "good value".

enjoy

ken

nigel, nice write-up; many thanks.

"effortlessness" is not an appropriate description of my 252 right now -- but all in good time i hope. its musical picture is a bit fragmented right now. i am picking up a lot of good attributes, but these all seem "in isolation" and not really belonging to an integrated picture (god! what does that mean??). but again, patience -- all in good time...

in your case, some of this effortlessness is coming from the nap500 and nbl's no doubt. i'm jealous!!!

enjoy

ken