Hamilton stripped of win!

quote:

Originally posted by JamieWednesday:
He should know...and he raced for both teams, winning two titles in red and only one in (then) red and white, so unlikely to be biased against any team and all for racing.

"This is the worst judgement in the history of F1," fulminated former champion and television commentator Niki Lauda after race stewards handed McLaren's championship leader a retrospective 25-second penalty that dropped him to third place.

"It's absolutely unacceptable when three (stewards) influence the championship like this," the Austrian said.

Sorry Nikki, but nonsense. Could have gone either way, disagree if you want but don't exaggerate. As for the steward; exactly what are stewards for if not to take decisions to enforce the rules? Are they employed to make decisions for back-markers only?

Like refs, they made a call. Respect it.

This farrago of complaints, claims and counter-claims is part of the F1 problem. Get on with racing!

Bruce

Max will need more than a few bandages to heal this one!

Tony

quote:

"All Lewis had to do was let Kimi lead out of La Source... he would have nailed him easily on the top straight after Eau Rouge."

He had already let KR by and the re-overtook at La Source what more should he have needed to do?

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
English hifi forum....

English F1 team....

English F1 driver....

English bias...?

I doubt that McLaren would enjoy the support on this forum if it were a French team. Every time the rules are enforced against McLaren I can depend on reading about the pro-Ferrari bias here in the Padded Cell.

Does the advantage of the decision going to the BMW as well as the Ferrari mean that there is now a pro-BMW bias with the F1 authorities...?

I join you in the minority opinion - the penalty was completely appropriate. Hamilton made the same mistake earlier in the season and has only himself to blame.

Gazetta Delo Sport today: La Gazzetta dello Sport quotes defending World Champion Kimi Raikkonen as being prepared to testify on behalf of arch rival Lewis Hamilton at the FIA hearing that will result from Vodafone McLaren Mercedes' protest of the penalty imposed on Hamilton after the Belgian Grand Prix. "I don't care what the stewards said, as far as I was concerned, Hamilton let me by as we passed the pits", said Raikkonen in Geneva today. "I got ahead, I tried to defend the position and the race was on again. My car was for sure very difficult on the prime tyres in the rain and Lewis got by me into the hairpin. That was that." Raikkonen went on, "For sure, I don't like to lose but I don't like to win through stupid decisions. People say I have lost the love (for F1) but yesterday I showed that second was not what I wanted. There are five races to go and I plan to win them all. I'm not the sort to give up that easily." Asked if he was prepared to testify to that effect if the McLaren protest goes to the FIA, Raikkonen simply said, "Yes, why not." Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali declined to comment on Raikkonen's statement but technical director Aldo Costa admitted the Scuderia was not pleased. "Our driver has a view but the team believes the stewards and the FIA have all the information they need. We will be talking to our driver during the week,"

Interesting if true!

Tony

If that is true, my view of Kimi has gone up several steps.
Whether Ferrari would let him testify is very very unlikely, they are not known for their sportsmanship.

If Kimi is retiring at the end of this year anyway, why would he care what his team thinks.

My view is that Hamilton did the right thing in letting Kimi past after the chicane.

This is some pretty good onboard footage.

Just be ready for that decisive moment in the braking zone for the chicane..... WOW!

Tony

MS did a very similar thing on Alonso a couple of years ago he (MS) did back off allow FA almost along side and then cut in front off him.
Guess what penalty was handed out?

Re onboard, steel balls or what?
Just a reminder they were on dry tyres in the rain. What it didn't show was KR locking up and sliding toward LH no wonder he "bailed out " to the slip road at the chicane. When they came on that other car wow how did they both miss it?
Also it's worth pointing out these guys operate in an other part of space/time, their reactions are phenomenally quick or at least their anticipations are.

Tony
Great footage link!
Matt.

In th eonboard footage you can see as soon as Hamilton rejoins the circuit, he's looking over to the right waiting for the ferrari to come past.

Hamilton was robbed a rightful victory and a classic piece of racing has been ruined if you ask me.

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
English hifi forum....

English F1 team....

English F1 driver....

English bias...?

I doubt that McLaren would enjoy the support on this forum if it were a French team. Every time the rules are enforced against McLaren I can depend on reading about the pro-Ferrari bias here in the Padded Cell.

Not a Ferrari fan are you Deane? How can a Kiwi support anyone else but Bruce's former team?



Tony. Amazing footage, thanks for the link!

For what it's worth I believe that Hamilton did give the place back to Kimi, but only just! It certainly doesn't sound like he let his pedal off the metal when Kimi goes past.

He still had a lot to do to get past at the end of the straight and then to come off again, but still win. Come on. That 3-4 minute piece is the most exciting bit of racing all year.

Jay

To anyone that likes that link, buy yourself a copy of 50 Years Of Formula One On-Board. A great DVD.

Tony

Great footage Tony. I still think it shows that Hamilton was within his rights to overtake after he had allowed Raikonnen to pass.

Fabulous footage, Tony. I love that in-car stuff where the commentators just shut the f%$# up (or in this case, were never there?).

I remember them showing Shuey on a hot lap in Melbourne with no commentary - just that ferrari howl - a couple of years back.

My view of the incident - 95% chance that the lad was shafted. 5% chance he was a bit naughty taking the racing line using the short-cut then ducking behind through the slipstream once he had Kimi out of position. Jeez - not really, though. He was ripped off. I hope he gets the win back.

Watch the footage a bit later in the clip through Eau Rouge (as well as the pit exit fiasco) and you'll see why these guys earn their money....

Argument seems to be that LH took the place too early. Massa says (he has a point maybe)that if LH had made the corner normally he would not have been able to pass KR in to La Source, and so he should have waited until later in the lap.
Find me a driver who has that mind set and I'll show you a loser IMO.

If Raikkonen hadn't pushed him off the circuit in the first place, Hamilton would have had him at the first corner. The rules were changed some years ago in that if a car is alongside another car by more than one wheel, then it has right of way. However, that rule has not been enforced in all the racing I've watched since then, so go figure! Basically, nobody wants to be shunted off, and of course Hamilton had a lot more to lose than Raikkonen at that point, who would've gained big points with Ferrari whether he won the corner or bounced Hamilton out of the race.

I agree that Hamilton could have slowed down more for the Ferrari so he would not have had to wait 'til the end of the straight to overtake, but the fact remains he didn't gain by his action, which is what the rule in this case is about. No idea what they're up to but it's this kind of gerrymandering which gives the sport a bad name.

Everybody seemed pretty exhilirated by the racing but to then be told afterward that what they'd witnessed didn't count deflates the result and the sport with it, just like the old days when cars were regularly found to break the rules.

Please, just accept the ruling and move on. Ron Dennis and his stablemates are born losers.

None of the views expressed on this forum are going to make any difference. Professor Brian Cox may be a member but I doubt that Max Moseley is (although the extreme right wing views expressed by some members might be to his liking).

quote:

Please, just accept the ruling and move on.

No. No. No. No. NO!!!!

Nick, have a read of Frank's post immediately before yours.

Nothing to do with being a bad loser or any other smoke screens. It was a terrible decision and, uncorrected, will forever scar F1.

Peter

Another perceptive post by nick. More in other threads.

As usual, Sniffpetrol seems to have summed up the episode with characteristic even-handedness. I particularly like the Monopoly reference.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Abela:
... but the fact remains he didn't gain by his action

No quite the point I think. The rules say he mustn't gain advantage which he quite clearly did because on any other corner of the circuit he would be a) picking gravel out of his radiators or b) picking armco out of his cockpit. The fact he was able to bail out of the passing manoeuvre and be right up Riakkonen's chuff moments later clearly, IHMO, gained him an advantage.

tony,
the link has been removed - read into this what you may!
dave

quote:

because on any other corner of the circuit he would be a) picking gravel out of his radiators or b) picking armco out of his cockpit. The fact he was able to bail out of the passing manoeuvre and be right up

Shows how much you were watching the race as people were going off on at least 4 other corners without any your symptoms, there were others that did have them though.

Duncan,

Of course, if Kimi didn't try to run him off the road you'd be partly right, but the fact is Hamilton was so much faster than Kimi that to be behind him at all on the following straight meant that he had gained no advantage since he was next to him on the way into the complex!