ok vinyl heads

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:
Paul Stephenson.....I have a Lyra Helikon, about 1 year old.....cannot understand why some Naim devotees reckon it`s output is too high for Naim K boards . I am using a K prefix... sounds like a perfect match to me....I understand that the "standard" Helikon`s output is 0.44 mV (under standard conditions) I read somewhere that Naim in USA requested a lower output (o.2mV) version. Surely o.44mV is well within the safety margins for K boards?. I have sucessfully used MC cartridges with outputs greater than 0.5-0.7mV Can you please explain what the percieved incompatibility was? Surely, lowering the output to 0.2mV invites potential noise problems?

Cheers Laurie S

---

Laurie, we once had the same setup, except mine was the Proac Response 3. At 11 o'clock, the standard Helikon can be oppressive with many songs, excellent bass alright, but too overbearing on other frequencies IMHO. So unless you play really loud like us, the standard Helikon is just fine ... but when pushed really loud past 12, it just becomes too much. We like it really loud, but not overbearing. The SL version solves this problem ... on noise, the high output actually can sound noisier at lesser volume levels ... Once you move to the SL, you will lose a bit of bass power compared to the standard. But when you move you to the NAP500 with the SL, the bass is super, you'll feel like the Proac's drivers are gonna go anytime, but they will hold even at 3 o'clock playing the torture track "Hands and Feet" from M&K's "Flamenco Fever" - try looking for that LP So Chris Koster was right, the SL is best for the big rigs (minimum NAP500) ...

Joseph

Surely the position of the volume control is irrelevant.....what counts is the SPL(i.e volume of the sound)....I would expect a lower output cartridge to allow you to turn the volume control up further.....whilst at the same time increasing noise.....try advancing the volume control with no record playing.

My previous cartridge was an Ortofon Rohmann(0.25mV)....I had to wind the volume up to 12 o`clock to bring the music to life....but the music was no louder than my Helikon at 9/10 o`clock. So my original question remains....what was the incompatibility..I have never experienced the"overbearing" character you describe

Cheers

Laurie S

PS to my last posting.......by the way I love my music VERY loud.....in fact since performing certain "modifications" to my mains supply (no details here!) my system is now so clean at high levels that I`m frequently ending listening sessions with an ache in my ears.....it can be heard easily from the road (through thick lined velvet curtains and double glazing, and 35+ feet of front garden)Our perception of loudness with Hi-Fi is often linked to the onset of distortion.....if the system is very clean then , as I am finding, only earache tells me it is loud
...I listen at 11/12 O`clock and it sounds perfectly comfotable to me

Laurie,

Yes, volume position is irrelevant, but we had almost exactly the same setup, so I thought it would be easier to relate. I find it overbearing especially with mellower music like vocals, or Steely Dan's "Hey Nineteen" for example. It sounds like everything is being pushed too forward. It just doesn't sound natural. It can actually go even louder, but earache already starts at 11 o'clock. With the SL, I can get it to sound much louder, but minus the earache.

I used to have several phono stages before the Prefix. The standard Helikon sounds like a 4.5mv MM cartridge being used in medium-to-high-output MC mode, which is of course wrong. I also tried the 2.5 mv Dynavector 10X4 MK2 on the NAC52's "K" card, way way overbearing at 9 o'clock (works well with the NAC 72's "K" card however ).

Anyway, if you feel it is right, then no issues You might not even like the SL, you have to pump up even more SPLs louder to get a more balanced match between the bass and other frequencies. With the standard, all you need is 10 o'clock and the bass is already pumping ... You will miss it, like I miss the Proac Response 3 for its bass extension and room-filling properties, compared to my current SBLs (which I still prefer overall however). I think these SBLs are too good that they deserve a NAP500. After hearing them with 2 NAP500s, the 135s just can't even come near the note-perfect NAP500s/SBLs ... ignorance is bliss, so better not listen to topnotch systems ... sorry for digressing here ...

Joseph

quote: "ignorance is bliss; best not listen to a top notch systems".

OUCH

Quote: " we used to have the same system"

I would respectfully suggest that that only the amps were similar....an Orbe/SMEV is not quite the same as a Gorbe/SMEIV.I used to have a Gyrodek/QC...going to the (full) Orbe is like night and day. Also, ProAc 3s are nothing like ProAc 3.5s....I`ve used both for extended periods
(I also had SBLs for about 5 years)



Question to Joseph: I think that if you examine my personal details (front end; viz turntable and arm) I am not sure why you make this comment.If you believe in the GIGO philosopy then an upgrade from an SMEIV to a V in your system will be more fundamental than going from 135s to a 500.



Question: do you still have mains fuses in your supply; what current rating are the fuses in your kit?;...this is so fundamental....by addressing this issue it is possible to make an 82 outperform a "standard" 52. I have heard a 52/500 (driving various speakers) producing far less musical results than I achieve at home with my kit

Simply owning the kit does not guarantee good sound..(it may help in the one-upmanship game)..setup is crucial as you no doubt already know.

I feel safe in saying that the sound I have achieved at home surpasses ever other system I have ever heard..and I`ve heard many. No doubt, if I obtained a 500 it would be better still, but thats not the point.

To get back to the original issue, I still have never achieved the "overbearing" quality you describe. If anything, my system already sounds quite lean in the bass.

Perhaps if you are ever in my area, you would be more than welcome to pop in and have a listen,and give me an education in high end sound .....seriously! (use my e.mail to pursue this further if you wish)

I am always open to new ideas!

Best wishes: Laurie S

No-one's mentioned Dynavector. In an Aro, the Dynavector 10x4 is a match made in heaven. I haven't heard the others, but would guess their combination with the Aro is even more astounding.

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned it either Paul. If you haven't tried Dynavectors (although I would be amazed if you haven't) then I would recommend hearing what all the fuss is about.

Also, you'll be aware that the crop of decent cartridges have also grown with the release of the Linn Adikt. Mine is on order and will be with me in a week or two.

So Paul, when is Naim going to release a tonearm with a laser-read mechanism on it? If you don't I will ... eventually.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

quote:

---

quote: "ignorance is bliss; best not listen to a top notch systems".

OUCH

---

That was meant for myself really ...

quote:

---

Quote: " we used to have the same system"

I would respectfully suggest that that only the amps were similar....an Orbe/SMEV is not quite the same as a Gorbe/SMEIV.I used to have a Gyrodek/QC...going to the (full) Orbe is like night and day. Also, ProAc 3s are nothing like ProAc 3.5s....I`ve used both for extended periods
(I also had SBLs for about 5 years)

Question to Joseph: I think that if you examine my personal details (front end; viz turntable and arm) I am not sure why you make this comment.If you believe in the GIGO philosopy then an upgrade from an SMEIV to a V in your system will be more fundamental than going from 135s to a 500.

---

Well, actually, I believe in the entire system synergy. One guy here has a US$500K++ system, and his TT is the humble Roksan Xerxes - but the sound is the best we've heard yet - unreal and dreamy are the best words. Now that system could have easily denigrated into mediocrity, if not for the person who set it up, in active mode even, the Singapore Naim distributor. Hats off to him for expertise ...

You're right that it is not exactly equal. But in this region, old-timers have a high regard for the SME IV as being better than the V, and that Proac 3.0 is highly sought after over the newer models. I don't know, I just trust their judgement, so I ended up with what I have ... and in the Vinyl Aylum, there are proponents that the Gorbe is better than the full Orbe. But that's just opinion of course ...
[/QUOTE]

quote:

---

Question: do you still have mains fuses in your supply; what current rating are the fuses in your kit?;...this is so fundamental....by addressing this issue it is possible to make an 82 outperform a "standard" 52. I have heard a 52/500 (driving various speakers) producing far less musical results than I achieve at home with my kit

---

Thanks, I will look into that next. I saw some earlier posts regarding replacing the fuses inside the amps, but haven't had the chance to do it yet. Of course, I don't have fuses in my power cords as these have been replaced with American Hospital grade ones, and I have a dedicated line with the 20A PS Audio Power Port, + PS Juice Bar, with the bulb disabled.

quote:

---

I feel safe in saying that the sound I have achieved at home surpasses ever other system I have ever heard..and I`ve heard many. No doubt, if I obtained a 500 it would be better still, but thats not the point.

---

That's good then. I had the 500 with me, and it was superb with the Proacs, really kick-ass.

quote:

---

To get back to the original issue, I still have never achieved the "overbearing" quality you describe. If anything, my system already sounds quite lean in the bass.

---

Well, you're the only one I know who doesn't think so, except for the visitors at my home who've heard it. They find it excellent, but it was all heavy metal music, where high output benefits the high energy output of such music.

quote:

---

Perhaps if you are ever in my area, you would be more than welcome to pop in and have a listen,and give me an education in high end sound .....seriously! (use my e.mail to pursue this further if you wish)

---

Well, I wish I was, but I'm halfway across the globe. Sure, we can email each other and take this offline ... I'm sure you know high-end, you already have it !!

So, have you got the Naim record yet ? I have it now, but haven't had the time to play it yet ... I've heard the CD before however, and it's great music. The record does not contain all the songs on the CD, however ...