Music you know everybody seems to like except you

Posted by: Guido Fawkes on 07 June 2008

On the Coldplay thread I remarked that there are certain bands that everybody seems to like, but I just don't see the appeal of. I remarked that Coldplay along with Radiohead and New Order were in that category for me; I could also add Frank Sinatra, James Taylor, Jackson Browne, Neil Young, the Eagles and Dire Straits. There is no implication in my statement that these artists are bad - in fact they are highly competent musicians producing very well respected material. It is simply that I personally don't like their music.

Dean (Whizzkid) replied

quote:
Now I am actually the complete opposite to your preferences in music and Blue Monday is such a mammoth piece of music in my circles you have to bow down before you play it, in certain clubs I used to go to it would bring the house down within the first bar being played.

When reading the "what are you listening to now" thread most of the music listened to on there is to safe for my tastes and people who have met me at Naim days can vouch for my, to them, unusual taste in music. I do not like to be soothed by music I want it to challenge my sensibilities I want it to make me go through all aspects of feelings and emotions from being uncomfortable (Squarepusher) to down right thrilling (Beethovens 9th) and funnily mainstream Folk music is the one genre (well Country as well) that does the same to me as The Bunnymen does to you. Though its the same with sixties music I'm definitely more Cream, Hendrix, Small Faces than G&PM and the Searchers. Maybe its the rebel in me I always look for the subversiveness in the music not whether its got a nice tune to whistle to. When I go to others to listen to their systems I do like them to play their stuff because maybe I'll be surprised by it and the other day at such an event I heard Bellowhead and thought this is big band Folk that's pretty cool but then it was ruined by the next track being a Christie Moore style Folkie thing that had me reaching for a bucket. Coldplay are also another band too safe for me whereas Radiohead are just fantastic well anything with Synth's in it gets me going.

Maybe we should start a thread on its own with these to two posts to start it off.


The assertion is I like music that is safe. I have admit there is some truth in this. Some late 70s/80s groups seem to inhabit the darker murky club scene, whereas my musical choice often seems to be in those hazy days of summer in the idyllic countryside. I am, of course, a member of the village green preservation society.

Unsurprisingly, Christy Moore, an artist that has Dean reaching for bucket, is artist who, for me, has seldom put a foot wrong. Christy was a member of Planxty who I regard as the best live act I have ever seen. Christy's Live At The Point is one of the finest live albums ever made and his studio album Ride On is a classic. How can anybody not like Wish I Was Back Home In Derry ?

So do you have pet hates among the records that forum members like me continually rave about?

Do you agree that I like safe music: Shirley Collins, HMHB, Kate Rusby, Incredible String Band, Rachel Unthank and the Winterset, Ray Davies, Basia Bulat, Sandy Denny, Martha & the Muffins, Frank Zappa, Melanie Safka, Kevin Ayres, Syd Barrett, George Formby, ELO, Kevin Coyne, ELP/Nice, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Tom Rapp, Karine Polwart and Christy Moore plus the Beatles and a whole host of female singers from Gracie Fields and Marie Lloyd to Polly Jean Harvey and Kate Walsh as well as the electronica of Delia Derbyshire and Kraftwerk.

It is that moment when you put on Eldorado and believe earnestly that this is popular music at its very best and the person you're playing it to says I don't think much of that.

Of course, I was recently nearly in position where I was going to have to listen to Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, but I was taken pity on and saved from this fate.

So, other than just being different, is there any pattern within the music that makes us love some things - like the timeless Kirsty MacColl and traditional folk music and detest others - such as all forms of rap and hip-hop in my case (I think it all sounds so dated, but people still enjoy it and why not).

Your views would be of interest.

ATB Rotf
Posted on: 16 June 2008 by blythe
Great to know City Boy are remembered by more than just me - I have all 7 LP's, the last of which was called "It's Personal" and was only released in small numbers in Scandanavia..

quote:
Originally posted by Steve S1:
quote:
There is only one band that I have ever bought every LP they made and that was "City Boy" - the Birmingham band who had a big hit with 5-7-0-5. Sadly, they were never well known and remain relatively unknown.....




Not by me. "Young Men Gone West" - great album. Worked at a place where they came along as support for Smokie of all people.

They were superb.

Mind you I also remember Queen circa 1974ish, being blown off stage by a band, I think called "Nutz". The rest is ....as they say, history.

Steve
Posted on: 16 June 2008 by blythe
I suspect my musical tastes were initially forged by what my 4 older brothers were playing. Mostly The Beatles, Dave Clarke Five and I suspose, more of the "rockin'" style of pop music at the time (mid to late 60's).
My parents listen to a lot of classical & choral records, so I suspose hearing good vocalists and musicianship at that young age meant that out of tune or bad vocalists still don't float my boat (Dylan etc.)

I also remember that by 12 years old, it simply wasn't cool to like certain kinds of music.
Our school seemed to be "Soulies" and "Rockers" and rarely did the two side mix!!!

I never liked soul and HATED Northern Soul. Mowtown seemed to be the same to me and I didn't like that either.

One day, I heard a song called "September" by Earth Wind & Fire, loved it so much I bought the single which I then hid at home and only played it when my brothers were out, in case I got "caught out". I think the next (or was it the other way round?) single I bought was "Play That Funky Music" by "Wild Cerry", also hidden away at home....
Oddly, I did get caught out and was shocked when one brother said "great song" - and he meant it!
I then started to appreciate some soul music, Motown and other genres.
By the time I was in my 30's, the only music I really disliked was "Country". Then that changed about 12 years ago and I now have quite a large country collection........ As long as it's not too twangy!

I think your surroundings, frame of mind, maturity, friends, parents etc. all have some influence on musical tastes but it is odd how a song or band that send shivers down my spine and make me tingle (in a good way) leave other people cold.

I guess we'll never know why...
Posted on: 16 June 2008 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Our school seemed to be "Soulies" and "Rockers" and rarely did the two side mix!!!

I never liked soul and HATED Northern Soul. Mowtown seemed to be the same to me and I didn't like that either.


Same here - but unlike your good self, I've never really come to terms with soul music with the exception of Aretha, of course, and some of the Temptations more psych stuff.

I think I was one of the very few at school who liked The Incredible String Band.

quote:
I think your surroundings, frame of mind, maturity, friends, parents etc. all have some influence on musical tastes but it is odd how a song or band that send shivers down my spine and make me tingle (in a good way) leave other people cold.


John Peel had a big influence on my taste and to a lesser extent Alan Freeman (not 'arf) - on Pick of the Pops he used to play new album tracks and I got to hear things I would otherwise never had had the chance to become aquatinted with. He played lots of Zombies and Argent for example as well as groups like Warhorse, Man, Alice Cooper and Black Swan (who remembers echoes and rainbows, it's just a click away).

I do like songs that sound distinctive and yet stay within familiar ground.

ATB Rotf
Posted on: 16 June 2008 by Whizzkid
quote:
Originally posted by JohanR:
quote:
why they might be trying out new stuff in their 40's that they would have never listened to in the teens.


Funny you should ask. At the tender age of 48 I suddenly started enjoying Jazz after hating it all my life. I don't knew why! It's great fun discovering a new music genre with lot's of unknown stuff.

JohanR



That's so true getting into a new genre opens up a huge world of interest and Jazz has nearly a 100 years of recordings and funnily I started with modern Improv jazz then Miles Davis and John Coltrane and now have got into Ben Webster who is a great link to the glory years of Jazz, so its Duke Ellington and Count Basie next maybe.


Though when it comes to what you come to like when you are older is maybe because there is no real peer pressure to stick to a certain select few genre's. You are mature enough to take some risks in exploring new genre's for me this is Classical music which would have been frown upon in my youth, because its poncy and arty farty but now I can say to anyone, up yours if you don't like it I do. Razz.



Dean..
Posted on: 17 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
quote:
[The] new genre's for me this is Classical music which would have been frown upon in my youth, because its poncy and arty farty but now I can say to anyone, up yours if you don't like it I do.


Dear Dean,

No need to aplogise to me. I resisted all the jibes from nine year's of age and onwards, once I discovered the classics. My attitude was Love me, love my music. Thus I refined the circle of my friends, who had to be mature enough to get over it!

ATB from George
Posted on: 17 June 2008 by PaulF
I don't post often on the forum but this is a fascinating thread, so felt I had to say something.

It would be interesting to know how many posters are active musicians themselves (ie people who play music as well as listening to it). My parents surrounded me with all kinds of music when I was young (classical, popular, jazz) and I often used to fall asleep to Dad playing the piano downstairs when I was very young, so I guess I had a very good start in the "listening" department.

I've played the piano since age of 8 and listened to all the normal stuff (rock, pop, punk, disco) plus classical during my teenage years; ran a mobile disco for several years, carefully selecting tracks and genres to make a good evening's entertainment. However, you can't beat playing in a band to experience what music is really all about - the interaction between musicians, and the shared experience of making something happen. Good recorded music can approximate this experience, of course, and Naim equipment is very good at this aspect.

Having played in many bands (rock, soul, jazz etc), listened to a lot of stuff, and mixed with a lot of musicians, I have come to the following conclusions:

1) Some people just listen to lyrics and judge a song purely on that

2) Other people prefer the rhythm, melody, harmony and chords to lyrics (that's me, a jazz buff)

3) Music is either good or bad, in the sense of the musicianship involved rather than the genre

4) Live music is really the only thing worth listening to, and, to an extent, the smaller the venue the better. I have almost given up listening to recorded music (except to learn from it), preferring to listen to live music, or actually play it myself, either solo, or preferably with a band of fellow musicians - this is what it is really all about, in my opinion

It sometimes worries me that people who love music so much never consider the option of actually learning to play themselves. Even just trying could be enormously enlightening, and shed some light on the process of making music and all it entails.

Even so, I just don't get U2, Bruce Springsteen and similar, even though there are fine musicians involved. Songs are too formulaic for me, I guess.
Posted on: 17 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Paul,

Here is a thread in the Padded cell, which may go some way to answering your question about "actually playing."

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/58019385/m/4872967417

On this showing either people don't care to admit to playing, which I know is the case for some here, as I know that they play or that they have played, but mostly I suspect the majority prefer to listen, and don't play or sing. I have played and could still, so I have found. I did so only a couple of months ago, when I discovered I still could manage it, even though I was in technical trouble when I really gave up with left hand problems that - no longer aggrevated by playing - have got better.

I would still rather listen than play after the experience gained though! But the insight that playing gives lasts forever!

I agree that live concert can yield the best results, but I still find more pleasure in a really great artist's reading on records than a mediocre one at a concert. Recordings often present music making that is completely worth listening to in between concerts of course, but these are expenisve to go to ...

George
Posted on: 18 June 2008 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
t would be interesting to know how many posters are active musicians themselves


I'm not an active musician. I sometimes strum a guitar, but find Status Quo a bit on the difficult side so I know my limitations - I used to write songs, but they were dreadful so I stopped.

My feeling is that if a song has lyrics then I'd like the artist to take the trouble to write some decent ones. I'm not too keen on the lyrics being profound and I dislike lyrics that are meant to shock, but I like nice story lines

Three wheels on my wagon,
And I’m still rolling along
The Cherokees are chasing me
Arrows fly, right on by
But I’m singing a happy song

I’m singing a higgity, haggity, hoggety, high
Pioneers, they never say die
A mile up the road there’s a hidden cave
And we can watch those Cherokees
Go galloping by

paints a picture and is not from the my baby loves me school. Dreary lyrics that I detest are things like

For nine months I carried you
Growin' inside me - NO CHARGE
For the nights I've sat up with you,
Doctored you, prayed for you - NO CHARGE
For the time and the tears.
And the cost through the years, there's NO CHARGE
When you add it all up.
The full cost of my love is NO CHARGE

Not only dreary, but as Gilbert and Sullivan would have said Nothing Rhymed.

The musical setting for the lyrics is equally important - they must go together. I do like musicians who can play a bit. Sometimes pretty ordinary lyrics sound fine when the music is right.

Live performances are less important to me than a good recording as I always feel that what is on record should be definitive. The other problem is that rock bands are usually too loud for me.

The finest live group I've ever seen were Planxty - though John Fogerty takes some beating. HMHB were, of course, really good as you'd expect. I have seen groups that I like on record, but were horrible live. I've recently watched some BBC4 live sessions with the Eagles, Neil Young and James Taylor, but didn't enjoy what I heard - I've not liked records I've heard by them and watching them live, albeit, on TV didn't alter that. Melanie Safka who I like a lot sounded fine on a live TV session, but so much better in the studio where the real magic of the precise orchestration seems to bring her songs alive. I realise watching TV sessions is not like being there.

I know this is not the common view. I wonder if it explains my taste in music and why there is a lot of music I know everybody seems to like except me.

ATB Rotf
Posted on: 19 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Now I'm also like you ROTF I feel a bad lyric spoils good music but unlike you I don't focus on the lyrics as much they are more an extra instrument. If I listen to say Joy Division its Ian Curtis' drone and deep tone that is enjoyable and integrable to the music. I feel this is because I mainly listen to instrumental music with maybe a smattering of "vocals". I find I do not like music that is wholly focused on the lyrics and story there within and has music as purely an accompaniment (strumming on a guitar Roll Eyes) I'd rather read a book.



Dean..
Posted on: 19 June 2008 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
If I listen to say Joy Division its Ian Curtis' drone and deep tone that is enjoyable and integrable to the music.


Hi Dean

Although I prefer Joy Division with Ian Curtis to New Order, I still find their music quite dark and urban. It makes me think of grimy back streets and the less pleasant side of the city. A bit more Velvet Underground than Grateful Dead - hmm I really used to like the Velvet Underground in the 60s, but as they became more well known I began to play their music less and less - I still like Loaded, but ...

Contrast with The Clash, contemporaries of JD, and you'll see where I'm at. The Clash's music is uplifting, more inclusive and makes me want to play air guitar. I think it creates more amenable images to me than JD. Probably what both parties intended - so it is good way of saying both have merit and integrity, but Mr Strummer's lot are more enjoyable for me.

To redress the balance I do prefer JD to the Lurkers or Ramones.

Of course, I have to question my own logic, as Scott Walker often conjures up bleak images and to me the man can do no wrong. Even in the 60s he sung The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore.

Next CD to spin is Planxty featuring Christy Moore Big Grin

ATB Rotf

Have you heard much by the late Delia Derbyshire? I think you'd like her music.
Posted on: 20 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Spinning - Super Black Market Clash at the mo.



Dean..
Posted on: 20 June 2008 by Exiled Highlander
Dean
quote:
Yes I am looking for a pattern but not many people have put forward why they feel they got into certain music in the first place and why they might be trying out new stuff in their 40's that they would have never listened to in the teens
For me the answer is pretty straightforward. I have been in the US for 11 years now and have been exposed to whole load of stuff that I would never have considered listening to in the UK - mostly Alt Country or Americana depending on your categorization of it.

As a kid I grew up loving the early Who stuff, some Deep Purple, Pink Floyd and - amazingly enough - the early Neil Diamond stuff before he let the record labels turn him into A.N. Other performer. Nothing if not varied!

As I look through my LP collection I see a wide range of stuff, some of which I like and some of which I scratch my heads as to why the hell I bought it (to be cool?).

Anyway, back on point, having discovered the likes of Hayes Carll, Slaid Cleaves, Ryan Bingham (buy Mescalito!!), John Prine, Townes Van Zandt, Po' Girl, Lucinda Williams, The Flatlanders and The Hacienda Brothers along with stuff like Son Volt and Uncle Tupelo I now find that my record buying habit has gone through the roof (it helps that they are cheaper here...sorry to rub it in).

So for me, it is purely situational. Having been absorbed (to a degree) culturally, stuff that would have been interesting only in the abstract before is now "real" to me and the lyrics from Hayes, Ryan and the others all make sense (I've met both of them so I can use their first names with some impunity Smile ).

Not everyone's cup of team but there is my reason for changing musical tastes!

Cheers

Jim