Immersion in Chopin

quote:

Originally posted by Florestan:
The name of this thread is "Immersion in Chopin." In thinking about this (and also by extension, "Immersion in composer x, y, or z." I just wonder if this is possible by only listening to one interpretation / viewpoint? Does a better understanding of any composer and his music come from immersing ones self into the different perspective that are available (whether we initially agree with them or not)? Or is it best to seek what we are comfortable with only, get extremely familiar with it, and be satisfied that we need look no further?

What does anyone else think it takes to get "Immersed in a composers music." Can one get on with a composer whose personality clearly is the polar opposite of ones own character?

Regards,
Doug

I think you can immerse yourself in a composer by listening to whatever you have at hand, possibly with the help of a score, or other resource, such as the "Dictionary of Musical Themes", and paying close attention.

If that does not satisfy for some particular work, or you feel the need to add new works, then you may feel compelled to seek out new recordings.

Immersing yourself in a composer does not imply an attempt to develop a universal appreciation, but merely to increase your personal appreciation of a given composer. Any attempt to develop a comprehensive appreciation is likely to fail in most cases.

In my case, I'm trying to extract all the juice out of what I have, after which I may or may not increase my library.

Lately, I tend to stick with a recording if it is musically satisfying, and only look for an alternate if I am not satisfied, or someone on this forum touts a performer new to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
George, surely there must be a few pianists who play Chopin up to your requirements, even if they are all likely pushing up daisies. What about Lipatti's Waltzes? Hard to imagine a more perfect Chopin recording......

Dear Oldnslow,

For years up till 1991 I had two Lipatti LPs. The one with Bach's First Keyboard Partita on and the other with Chopin's Waltzes on. At the time my musical taste was decidedly towards Bach as it still is though inevitably it has broadened out. At the time I could find no backbone in the Chopin. I am sure that I was mistaken by now! I suppose that repurchasing the Lipatti recording of the Chopin Waltzes [14 of them at least] might be as fine a starting point as any!

You have just initiated a CD purchase!

Thanks from George

Dinu Lipatti made very few recordings in his sadly short life, which can be collected together on half a dozen or so CDs, but each is precious.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
George, surely there must be a few pianists who play Chopin up to your requirements, even if they are all likely pushing up daisies. What about Lipatti's Waltzes? Hard to imagine a more perfect Chopin recording......

Dear Oldnslow,

For years up till 1991 I had two Lipatti LPs. The one with Bach's First Keyboard Partita on and the other with Chopin's Waltzes on. At the time my musical taste was decidedly towards Bach as it still is though inevitably it has broadened out. At the time I could find no backbone in the Chopin. I am sure that I was mistaken by now! I suppose that repurchasing the Lipatti recording of the Chopin Waltzes [14 of them at least] might be as fine a starting point as any!

You have just initiated a CD purchase!

Thanks from George

George - now you are the Master Of Streaming Audio, are you using Spotify? They seem to have a great selection available - and it's free though the bitrate and adverts may annoy especially on a long classical piece. But for £10/mth you get higher sound quality and no adverts. It's saving more way more than £10 a month in CDs I no longer need to buy, just listen to them via Spotify when the fancy takes me.

I do have an invite to join, as it is no longer free access, but have not done it yet!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
George, surely there must be a few pianists who play Chopin up to your requirements, even if they are all likely pushing up daisies. What about Lipatti's Waltzes? Hard to imagine a more perfect Chopin recording......

Ordered from UK Amazon on CD for less than £10 including post.

Thanks for the kick into action!

ATB from George

It's a shame Lipatti died so young, and all his recordings are treasurable. His Chopin, Mozart K.310, Bach Partita No.1 will always remain my favorites.

I'm really fond of Rubinstein's Chopin, in large part due to their deep connection of nationality and geography. The poetry of Rubinstein's playing is like a lucid dream.

Best,
Fred

I just can't get enough of Blechacz playing the complete Chopin Preludes. It is lean and beautifully voiced, illuminating every line, easy on the pedal :-) His touch is absolute perfection, and his technique is beyond reproach. Rubato is among the most rhythmic I have experienced.

As an added bonus, the recorded piano sound is stunning in it's clarity, and the piano received one of the best tunings I have heard.

Mike, you may wish to explore Blechacz's new recording of the Chopin piano concertos with the Concertgebouw orchestra. I likely will pick that up as I very much enjoy Blechacz's first two CDs (the Preludes and his Haydn, Mozart , Beethoven sonatas disc). While in Europe a couple of years ago I picked up a 3 CD set of his performances at the Warsaw Chopin piano competition, and it is easy to see why he won.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
Mike, you may wish to explore Blechacz's new recording of the Chopin piano concertos with the Concertgebouw orchestra. I likely will pick that up as I very much enjoy Blechacz's first two CDs (the Preludes and his Haydn, Mozart , Beethoven sonatas disc). While in Europe a couple of years ago I picked up a 3 CD set of his performances at the Warsaw Chopin piano competition, and it is easy to see why he won.

Thanks Oldnslow, didn't know about the concertos. Will order it straight away !

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
George, surely there must be a few pianists who play Chopin up to your requirements, even if they are all likely pushing up daisies. What about Lipatti's Waltzes? Hard to imagine a more perfect Chopin recording......

Ordered from UK Amazon on CD for less than £10 including post.

And arrived yesterday! A new door is opening! Not long and I'll be getting some more of Chopin's music ...

ATB from George

PS: Perhaps I'll get some Debussy as well! who knows!!

George, did your Lipatti CD contain, in addition to the waltzes, his incredible performance of the Barcorole?

14 Waltzes, plus:

Barcarolle In F Sharp, Op. 60
Nocturne In D, Op. 27/2
Mazurka No. 32 In C Sharp Minor, Op. 50/3

EMI Great Recorings Of The Century.

Wonderful!

ATB from George

So, George, now that you understand Dinu Lipatti at last, you need to go one step further and get (most of) the Chopin Waltzes all over again.

As is probably well known, Dinu Lipatti died of leukaemia (on 2 Dec 1950). But he had agreed to play a piano recital at the Besancon Festival on 16 Sep of that year. Pumped full of the cortisone that was artificially prolonging his life, he ignored his doctor's advice and played that concert.

It is spellbinding, and I can never listen to it without a tear in my eye. He played Bach's First Partita (BWV825), Mozart's Eighth Piano Sonata (KV310), two Schubert Impromptus and 13 Chopin Waltzes: he was just too worn out to play the Waltz Op34 No1.

The CD is available as part of EMI's Great Artists Of The Century, no 5 62819 2. The sound is fairly approximate, but who would care?

And listening to those little chordal flourishes before Lipatti starts to play the works, you have to conclude that he loved his piano. Or was he just nervous?

I defy anyone to find a more moving instance of piano playing ever. The only musical equivalent that I can bring to mind is Bruno Walter conducting Mahler's Ninth in Vienna just before "the lights went out in Europe" in 1938.

Graham

Dear Graham,

I think this recording has opened the door for me, but my failure till now was my not understanding of Lipati's art, so much as that of Chopin!

In the old days I had two Lipati LPs - 14 Chopin Waltzes and the one with the Bach First Partita on.

The Bach album then followed up with two CDs of it. The first having the same content as the LP, and the second including the Two Schubert Impromptus you mention from the last recital Lipati gave.

I quite agree that the whole concert must be in a class of its own as music making. I gave both these Lipati/Bach albums to friends to convert them to Bach. A success in both cases.

I remain open to new music, but very little seems to match the old revered masters for me.

Perhaps Chopin is proving successful in this! In any case this Lipati set had me listening into the music for the first time with the kind of engagement that I usually associate with Bach, Haydn, Beethoven or even Sibelius, among others!

I have found that just one grand performance of a certain composer's music [new to me or previously not really comprehended in terms of me getting the sense of getting the point] is guarantee that I have found a new seem of music to investigate and enjoy!


ATB from George

George

The CD I mention contains live recordings of pieces that Lipatti had recorded in the studio, recordings that you have, and have had, in the past. You really MUST acquire it, it's amazingly wonderful. This is a recording of perhaps the last Century's greatest pianist playing in public for the very last time before he died a few weeks later.

Graham

Dear Graham,

You are a proper tempter! I cannot resist this now! :¬)

I can see a new thread in our little exchange!

Great performing musicians who have opened up great music for us, the first time!

I'll give it some thought and set it up later on.

ATB from George

George, if you buy it and don't cry while listening to it, I'll send you a cheque to reimburse you.

It's one of the discs that I'd take to that infamous desert island.

G

It has been known for some performances to have this effect! You won't have to reimburse me!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

I remain open to new music, but very little seems to match the old revered masters for me.

Perhaps Chopin is proving successful in this!

You mean you think Chopin is new music?! Or do you mean Chopin is new to you? Kind of baffling either way.

All best,
Fred

George, glad you liked the Lipatti, and Chopin. How instead of another duplicative Lipatti, I suggest grabbing a copy of Ivan Moravec's set of complete nocturnes (Nonesuch), another one of the glories of recorded Chopin......

Don't you mean Ivan Lessavec.... That's how I like it

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

I remain open to new music, but very little seems to match the old revered masters for me.

Perhaps Chopin is proving successful in this!

You mean you think Chopin is new music?! Or do you mean Chopin is new to you? Kind of baffling either way.

All best,
Fred

New to me, in the sense that after forty years it speaks to me. So not baffling at all. I am always open to new music, however long it takes. I worked for twenty years to love the Missa Solemnis, and the Saint matthew Passion. What I find baffling is trying to rush great music!

Great music stands a chance of speaking to any of us with patience!

I wonder when will be next, or what.

ATB from George

Ivan Moravec is just wonderful. You can get two CDs of him playing Mozart Concertos on Haensler (not sure about the name) with Neville Marriner conducting his ASMF orchestra.