A few observations from a relative newbie...

Posted by: seagull on 10 April 2002

Hi all, I've enjoyed my brief time on the forum. I've picked up a few good ideas here and had some of my previous thoughts (prejudices?) confirmed...

Everyone here probably owns (or want to own) kit that is better than 99% of the population (ok "87% of statistics are made up on the spot" - Vic Reeves). From reading some of the posts extolling the virtues of a particular upgrade you would think that their previous kit (probably also Naim) was total c**p, it probably wasn't. I doubt whether the improvement in quality is as large as your first step into quality hi-fi (i.e. the first step on the Naim ladder). Maybe the gap between top end Naim kit and bottom of the range is considerable (I don't know, I've not heard any real top-end kit) but then so are the price differentials so it had better be worth it. I guess value for money is relative, my friends think I'm mad for contemplating spending £1000 on a cd player (an entry level one at that!) and don't understand when I say that it still doesn't sound as good as my turntable. I still get quizzical looks from some of my friends when I say that I still play records and didn't consign my collect of black vinyl to the scrap heap to be replaced with silver place mats. Recently, one even asked me to show her daughter what an LP actually looked like!

Naim are a good company, their customer service is excellent (in my experience) and the fact that they still support old obsolete equipment (like mine!) is extremely rare in today's disposable society.

Separate mains spur for the hi-fi. A good thing to isolate the sensitive electronics from all those nasty, noisy things in the kitchen (the fridge, freezer etc.)

Power supplies. It would seem to be a good idea to isolate the AC mains from the more sensitive electronics (again), from the evidence on the forum these would also greatly improve the music (don't know myself - never tried it but maybe in the future...)


Get some decent racks. This always made sense to me for turntables; I guess CD players would also benefit from isolation from vibrations. And the electronics, apart from the separation of mains from the sensitive electronics (again), I must admit that I'm not convinced? However, again, the evidence on the forum suggests that it can improve the sound, given the strength of feeling expressed by various people here (you know who you are). Please don't start another Mana/QS flame war. In any case it is useful to have something to put your gear on!

Source first. A good source should improve most systems, having an unbalanced system (with expensive speakers driven by cheap amp for example) would only show up the deficiencies of the preceding parts. I guess that a system is only as good as its weakest link, but its effect is greater the closer to the source it is. I have a friend (yes, amazing but true!) who took the opposite approach and spent a fortune on speakers, his source has only just caught up (needles to say, he's not a Naim owner)

If buying Naim amplifiers do use NACA5. Naim amps are designed to use it and its not expensive (certainly compared to some speaker leads)!

The upgrade path. Hmmm, there are many ways through this maze, some involve very large outlays others relatively small. I guess when starting out it is important to know where you want to go ("I wouldn't start from here..." being a common response to many requests for advice). An important thing to remember that you may be aiming for that XPS/CDSII/552/500 ... etc. system but remember, each step along the way could be your last. You may find your female life-time partner (I'm assuming that most forum members are male) and have your priorities (and budget) radically changed so make sure that each step you make on your journey leaves you with a system you can live with (even if you still yearn after that NAC52, or whatever your next step is).

When adding/changing things do it one at a time. If things improve then fine carry on, but sometimes it can be a backwards step, if there are too many variables you won't know where to start to find the problem. This may take a long time given the long burn-in times of some of the kit but be patient it will probably be worth it.

Do seek advice. Members of this forum have been there, done that got the tee-shirt and can offer the benefit of their experiences. But remember it is only people's opinions and not definitive (racks would appear to be the most controversial). It can save you from making expensive mistakes. Lets face it, none of this kit is cheap.

Find a good dealer, one who is not pushy, who will give you impartial advice and a demo (Ok it may not be at its best - there are many postings claiming improvements in Naim kit after weeks or even months) and probably most important of all, will loan you the kit so you can try it at home (you wouldn't buy a car without a test drive would you?). I don't think anyone could 'borrow' kit for that long. Doubtless, someone will pick out a recent post of mine regarding my own audition of cd player, yes it wasn't ideal (non-Naim cable and a cold Nait5 - yuk!) but I treated it like a first interview, to gain some first impressions and to determine what kit I wanted to investigate further in the comfort of my own home - which I did. This lead to a re-budgeting exercise to accommodate the more expensive cd player.

I was surprised at the number of you who own or buy second hand. I guess that given the price of new kit it’s a good way of getting decent kit. Given Naim's build quality and after sales service this is probably not a risk. Buyer beware with anything s/h though when parting with hard earned cash for anything untried - it's not always possible to try before buying. I'd, personally, be wary of s/h cd players though - moving parts do wear out and they are apparently expensive to repair.

Do leave enough money in your budget to buy some music as well otherwise your Naim kit becomes some expensive room heaters.

Most important of all, trust your own ears. If the music sounds good to you then it probably is!

Posted on: 10 April 2002 by Dr. Exotica
Without any nit picking, this is a good summary of the fundamental issues that any Naim owner must address. Well done Seagull.

I might add a couple other small points:

  • physically separate your power supplies from your sources (or pre-amp) as much as is reasonably possible
  • upgrade to black SNAICs

Erik

Posted on: 10 April 2002 by J.N.
Well said Seagull.

I have a very expensive, active Naim system sitting on Fraim and am always looking to 'tweak' and improve it.

I'm pretty sure that I had as much MUSICAL enjoyment out of my first separates system, thirty years ago.

BSR MP60 turntable, a Prinzsound amp from Dixons and a pair of Wharfedale Dentons.

Funny old busines eh?

Posted on: 10 April 2002 by DAVOhorn
Dear John,

I would imagine it sounded better !!!!!!!!!!!!


regards david

Posted on: 10 April 2002 by ebirah
We could practically delete all the other posts on the Forum and leave just yours!

...seriously, I find myself agreeing with practically all of what you say especially re the most recent upgrade rendering everything else crap (the CDX was hopeless now I have a CDS type post - been there; it just ain't true) and the bit about Naim's customer service and support - that, possibly more than anything else, stops me considering the alternatives too seriously. I've been thinking about a Dynavector recently (I do run Shahinians after all), but will they look after it like Naim do....and in 20 years time? Dunno. Possibly not. I know Naim will still be there, servicing my old, redundant, hopeless sounding 250 (...now the new Naim 260 or somesuch is out).

Steve

Posted on: 10 April 2002 by J.N.
Spare a thought for poor old DAVOHORN.

You must realise that years of self abuse with those strange horn speakers have not only addled his ears; but I fear his mind is going as well.

The psychiatrist is helping you David. Keep up the appointments.