Leica Virgin

Is the leica v-lux not actaully a panny? I had a play with one of them and to be perfectly frank it was crap.

I would be more inclined to delve into the DSLR route, a good basic such as the Nikon D40 and reasonable lens will come well within budget and then is upgradable if you are so inclined with different lenses.

The Panasonic one with leica lens has a digitial disply in the eye piece, this is quite the worse combination of pointlessness and shit ever concieved.

As usual, garyi has summarised accurately and succintly. I am a Leicaphile, unlike Gary, but I too think your money would be better spent on an entry level DSLR with a real viewfinder and interchangable lenses. The D40 is an option but there are also good contenders from Canon and from Pentax. Olympus have some new entry level stuff just announced too.

If you want an all in one camera, I'd also suggest that you look at some of the Fuji range which are apparently pretty good. For the budget you have set there will inevitably be compromises. I believe that the Panasonic version of the Leica is called the FZ50, by the way.

The first question should be whether you own any glass that you can use on a digital body.

If not, then stick to Canon/Nikon when choosing a DSLR. You are buying a camera system - not just a camera.

I too would suggest a good look at the Nikon D40 - it's compact, comapratively inexpensive, handles brilliantly. Excellent performer. Top of the (freshly) current heap acording to many of the comics***. A couple of minor inconveniences (re use of some older lenses), although this will only apply to some punters and in that instance they'll probably want the next couple of models up. I've had a go with a D40, very impressed.

Taking pics of kids - once you're in a real D-SLR, you'll wonder how you got my with the shutter-lag of those digital point-and-shoots or the faux-SLR's.

Plus the D40 has a new flash to go with it, the SB400 (?) which gives you all that awesome iTTL balanced fill flash stuff, at a low price.

The D40x has just been announced. According to Ken Rockwell prolly not worth the wait or the extra money.

Someone I work with recently asked me what I thought of the Canon S3 iS (a pretty reasonable faux-SLR P&S). His requirement was pics of the kids, and some studio portraiture. I recommended the D40 as it gets him straight into the control required for portraiture (external flash etc) and instant response for kids, in a package little bigger. Or if it had to be P&S, the Canon G7 (has the flash shoe and good exposure control). He preferred the hard road, with the S3iS. hey ho.

*** as ever, it's how it handles in your hands that really counts. Good luck with your search.

Look at the Olympus EVolt range as well. I have the entry level E500. It came with 2 Olympus lenses, both zoom, and I'm enjoying it.
I stuffed it with 5GB and never find myself short of storage space even with the highest resolution. It will hold an XD and CF card at the same time.
Lots of flexibility and features, full range of accessories. And an adaptor will let your Zuiko lenses fit though no automatic features.
$800 US or so, a bargain.
Check it out.
David

If a pocket sized camera is your priority, I would recommend the Leica D-Lux 3 D-Lux 3. I am a long-time SLR/DSLR user, but sometimes just don't want the bulk. I have had a D-Lux 2 for the past couple of years, taken thousands of shots, and I think it is bloody great. The little Leica lens is remarkable, and far exceeds the quality of any other compact by a large margin. I have some pretty expensive Nikon glass, and the little Leica comes close. There is no shutter delay.

As always, great advice. Thanks guys.
Looks like the D40 would suit what I want best as I'm not going to chuck my Nikon compact just yet, so I'll have both.

Rasher
I'm sure you'll enjoy the D40. As rockingdoc says, the Dlux3 is an excellent compact. I carry mine most places, it came with a rather dinky leather case with a belt loop. However, it is limited in its usefulness as best picture quality is attained below 200ISO. Candid kid snaps indoors might prove tricky, though there is an inbuilt flash. An SLR is a lot more versatile but not quite so portable. There is a Panasonic version of the Dlux3 - I think it's called the LX2.

Rockingdoc said of the Leica D-Lux 3

quote:

There is no shutter delay.

unfortunately though, there is still a delay between what is going on in front of the lens, and what you see on the electronic screen. Hence at the moment you hit the shutter release (regardless of how minimal the delay), you capture something other than 'the moment' on the screen before you. This is one of the defining differences between a D-SLR and 'all the others'.

As an avid Leicaphile I'd say avoid all the Panasonic red dotted cameras.

The only one worth the red dot is the 'M8' - this camera represents what Leica is all about. It's a real Leica.


Graeme

So is my R9/DMR!

quote:

Leica Virgin

...Touched for the very first time.

Sorry.

It seems to have gone over everyones head...Thanks for noticing Jamie. I'm going to get a job at The Sun.

Rasher
It seemed so obvious I didn't respond!

Have you been to fondle any cameras yet? It's a bit like an audition - handling them will give you a very strong idea of what works in your hands and what doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Kelly:
So is my R9/DMR!

Sorry Chris you are right of course - infact I really like both the R8 and R9. Beautiful machines but the Digital Module is just too big for me.

Graeme

It is a chunky beast for sure, but actually the whole thing handles pretty well.The R9 itself is a wonderful camera body - designed by a photgrapher I suspect rather than a computer geek! Just a shame that they could only fit SD in and not CF, cos the RAW files are big. On a trip last autumn to the USA I was swapping 2GB SD cards out about every 100 images, which was a nuisance.

Sadly, I believe that Leica have discontinued the DMR. I think it must be a struggle to keep an R&D stream going for both digital SLRs and rangefinders. I have a couple of M7s and am sorely tempted to get an M8 instead. I buy the Leicasonic compacts but always aware that they are not "real" Leicas. The lenses are good though, which I guess is the main reason for my continuing brand loyalty.

Still curious to know where rasher ended up!

I'm doing my homework on it right now and reading lots of reviews. I'll get to handle some soon, but I'm moving house next week & I've got other things to come first.
It really looks like the D40. The house move is a good thing because £500 here or there won't notice.

Good luck with the move rasher. Never a pleasure.

Re Leica Virgin

quote:

It seems to have gone over everyones head...Thanks for noticing Jamie. I'm going to get a job at The Sun.

I admit to having a thread (or response to such) identically titled in another forum, and it too went unoted. And there was also the time I started a thread in a beer-based internet newsgroup commenting about the beer-of-the month clubs that I had joined that was titled 'Sipping on the bock of the day- a brilliant Spoonerism I thought- that drew nary a guffaw.

I'm now tripping over myself with the spec on the D40. There is some discussion about shutter lag and slow autofocus with the necessity of motorised lenses. I've found a good deal on a D40 with 18-55mm lens at £369, but is this a better bet?

Rasher the discussion on any shutter lag would be down to comparisions against more expensive offerings. I don't think you would have an issue.

Have recently dropped a nikon D50 with a 1 kg lens on it, both have come out not broken, I would seriously stick with nikon. If you can find a D50 they should be cheap and are only a year old so very current.

Canon's bottom range are just not built as well. Infact compared to my D50 canons mid priced DSLRs are not as well built, in my experience any way.

Rasher having briefed Dpreviews review I would hold off on the D40.

It does not have the older autofocus pin, this for instance on eBay would restrict any further lens purchased significantly.

eBay always has loads of good quality cheap AF glass, which you may want to play with in the future this is not compatible with the D40.

That for me is an instant deal breaker.

Don't be put off though, D50s and D80s can still be purchased new, and the D50 has more features.

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
Thanks for noticing Jamie.

Yes - the only time any of my subtle jokes really work is when someone points them out - or, better, explains them and adds a smiley. (absence of smiley).

And, yes, I thought it had the makings of a classic - just didn't want to deflate a perfect soufflé.

Damn! I thought I had found the bargain of the century, and now you've spoilt my day Gary. Seriously though, thanks for the advice. That sets me on the path to find a D50. There are plenty on Ebay. Maybe I'll take a chance there.
It was the motorised lenses that put me off the D40, and if the build quality is poor on the Canon, then that is very important as my wife is very rough with the compacts she's had, and she's been through a few!
Top advice here. Thanks again. I was 30 minutes away from ordering the EOS. I really know nothing at all about DSLR's, and a lot of the terms I am completely ignorant of. I cetainly can't understand the 18-55mm meaning in fact 70-200mm (?).

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
Damn! I thought I had found the bargain of the century, and now you've spoilt my day Gary. Seriously though, thanks for the advice. That sets me on the path to find a D50. There are plenty on Ebay. Maybe I'll take a chance there.
It was the motorised lenses that put me off the D40, and if the build quality is poor on the Canon, then that is very important as my wife is very rough with the compacts she's had, and she's been through a few!
Top advice here. Thanks again. I was 30 minutes away from ordering the EOS. I really know nothing at all about DSLR's, and a lot of the terms I am completely ignorant of. I cetainly can't understand the 18-55mm meaning in fact 70-200mm (?).

I use the D50 with Nikkor 24-200 and it produces fantastic results, better than the D80 as I think the pixel no./sensor size and lens are better matched.

I also have a Leica D1 'rangefinder' which is excellent and again I think better than the later D2 they produced.

The D50 and Leica D1 produce similar images IMHO with the D50 quite 'Leica-like' in terms of colour balance.....you can get a Leica D1 on ebay fairly cheaply but then use the D50 when more versatile shooting is required ie. low light.

So - thats my solution - get both!

Graeme