Legal procrastination

quote:

Originally posted by scipio2:
A muslim fanatic has been found guilty of inciting murder and mayhem in the London 'Danish cartoon' protest but will not be sentenced until April. Why not just deport him to an Islamic country and be done with it?

Maybe they should should deport all the illegal occupiers of various muslim countries first? Countries like Iraq where 650,000 have died is full of illegal occupiers with more on their way and Afghanistan and Palestein too. Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon and tanks to demolish houses in Gaza and bullets to shoot women in the back?

Whereas I agree with the arrest and sentence I also subscribe to the view that a government demonstrably guilty of lying, manipulating and deceiving its people into supporting an illegal, immoral, unjustified and unwinnable war should be tried for war crimes under international law and the billions they have made through arms sales be used to compensate those who have been made homeless, fatherless and limbless.

The protest against the Danish cartoons was never really about the cartoons it was about a people who are fed up with being pushed around, abused, maimed and murdered by the true inciters to murder President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. Muslims feel persecuted because they are persecuted and they are fed up with hypocrisy and double standards and an ineffectual UN bowing or toadying to US power.

The muslim sentenced yesterday did not actually incite anyone to actually murder whereas Bush and Blair have incited troops to murder tens of thousands. Will they ever be deported or go to jail?

Of course no one can be deported to a country without a country accepting the proposed deportee. Do you think someone can be deported without the permission of the country receiving the deportee? If you are ever found guilty of a crime why should you be deported? Why should any British citizen be deported to a foreign country? Do you really think that transporting a problem in the short term will solve the problem in the long term? Do you think you could be found guilty in a British court of law of inciting racial hatred having made this thread? Are you a member of the BNP? Over to you.

Why not wait until he is sentenced in April, I would expect that the judge has valid reasons for waiting until then. Do you by chance know if this chap is a UK national or has right of abode in the UK? as that to may well need to be taken into consideration prior to passing sentence.

Acad,

The invasion of Iraq wasn't illegal.

The war was won by the coalition.

The follow-up, IMHO, could have been implemented a lot better.

It seems as if the Iraqis feel they are getting control of their post-war situation.

I imagine the Iraqi Government will soon state that they will be happy for the coalition to leave.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon ........and bullets to shoot women in the back?

I don't think you will find that either of these activies were specified by the Americans as being a mandatory condition for receiving funding.

And I don't think you will find that these activities were a specific part of the Israeli strategy, more likely horrible mistakes.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
[QUOTE]Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon ........and bullets to shoot women in the back?

quote:

I don't think you will find that either of these activies were specified by the Americans as being a mandatory condition for receiving funding.

That is one way of looking at it. At first glance your point seems a sound one as no one would possibly suggest that the US says to Israel 'Here is your check for $40billion but make sure you shoot some old defenceless women in the back or you will have to repay the donation' - it would be absurd to suggest this so you look like you have made a good point, however the attack on Lebanon was planned a year before it was implemented with the full knowledge of the US (who also provided satellite Intel to israel).

More damning however, is why if the US does not condone the use to which its donation is put do they not withdraw their aid????

That fact that they do not withdraw their aid and use their veto to scupper UN resolutions against israel is proof of their tacit approval for those hienous actions I mentioned earlier.

quote:

And I don't think you will find that these activities were a specific part of the Israeli strategy, more likely horrible mistakes.

A very planned and deliberate mistake and only a mistake insofar as they encountered more flak from the international community than they thought they would. How does a country bomb 7,000 homes (each individually targeted according to Israeli propaganda)by mistake? It will happen again. If they thought they could have got away with it they would still be bombing Lebanon and would be increasing the rate at which they ethnically cleanse Palestians from their 'Holy (God given) Land' and the US would be happily footing the bill.

Regards,

Acad

Acad

Your initial post refered to "bomb children in Lebanon"

That is what I quoted from your text. Not the bombing of 7,000 homes.

I do not believ that Israel deliberately and exclusively targeted children in Lebanon which is what your post implied.

Cheers

Don

Acad.

You seem to have absolute hatred for Bush and Blair and many of the values that the "West" holds dear. Of course I could be wrong on one or all of these counts and would happily stand corrected.

What is your understanding of the current and the ultimate aims of Bin Laden, the Taliban, Suni Muslims in Iraq, the current regime in Iran and fundamentalist Muslims in general. I am not suggesting these people/groups are linked in way, so feel free to treat each of them separately.

Are you of the opinion that the world would be a better place under the influence of such people.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
Acad

Your initial post refered to "bomb children in Lebanon"

That is what I quoted from your text. Not the bombing of 7,000 homes.

I do not believ that Israel deliberately and exclusively targeted children in Lebanon which is what your post implied.

Cheers

Don

Insofar as it is reasonable to suppose that children would be amongst the occupants of some if not most of the 7,000 bombed properties it is entirely reasonable to suggest that the deaths of children were acceptable to Israel and the US. I never said anything about Israel exclusively targeting children and the fact that you say I did proves either you cant read or you seek to twist my words. Be sure I wont let you get away with that.

Acad,

I can read, but just to save everybody from having to flick up and down this page I will print the words you wrote and about which I raised my concern

quote:

Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon

No mention of "houses"........[that came in one of your later posts]

I also note that you didn't mention Hezbula being in the houses [either in your initial post or your later post], nor the fact that Irael is reported to have given plenty of warning to house owners before bombing, even to the extent of making individual telephone calls.

Usually there are many angles to these events

cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
Acad.

[QUOTE] You seem to have absolute hatred for Bush and Blair and many of the values that the "West" holds dear. Of course I could be wrong on one or all of these counts and would happily stand corrected.

I do not have an absoulute hatred for either Bush or Blair. Please feel free to quote anything that I have said that proves or even suggests that I have an 'abslolute hatred' for either. Yes, I hate much about them and what they have done in the world but to suggest I have an absolute hatred is a nonesense.

Please list those 'values' that the 'west holds dear' that you feel I hate. Please give exact quotes. And bloody good luck to you because you wont find any.

quote:

What is your understanding of the current and the ultimate aims of Bin Laden, the Taliban, Suni Muslims in Iraq, the current regime in Iran and fundamentalist Muslims in general. I am not suggesting these people/groups are linked in way, so feel free to treat each of them separately.

None of these people or groups are a the main problem in the world. AL Quada does not even exist. Bin laden we are told is running a world wide terrorist web from a deep cave in the mountains and fools believe this utter tosh. How can a world wide terrorist organistion be managed without use of computers, the internet, mobiles or landline phone? Do you think Bin Laden' cave has these facilities? I can assure that if so much as a single text message was sent from the mountains the NSA satellites in geo-synchronous orbit over the area would pick them up in a second and within minutes US bombers would target the area with bunker busting bombs followed up by special forces on the ground.

quote:

Are you of the opinion that the world would be a better place under the influence of such people.

The world is not under the influence of such people - the world is under the influence of Bush and Blair.

I have no time for muslim extremists at all. Not ever. I have no time for extremists of any persuasion.

Acad

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
Acad,

I can read, but just to save everybody from having to flick up and down this page I will print the words you wrote and about which I raised my concern

quote:

Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon

No mention of "houses"........[that came in one of your later posts]

I also note that you didn't mention Hezbula being in the houses [either in your initial post or your later post], nor the fact that Irael is reported to have given plenty of warning to house owners before bombing, even to the extent of making individual telephone calls.

Usually there are many angles to these events

cheers

Don

Israel knew children were in the houses and they bombed them. fact. How did they know Hizbollah were in the houses? They knew because of satelite intel (or so they would have you believe)well if they used to satelites to monitor individual homes because they saw Hizbollah entering them then they also knew the children were in them too.

It is alleged the leaflets were dropped in Qana but but many families hold up in the basements did not see them and those that did were too scared to leave because they had no vehicles and nowhere to go. Many escaping vehicles were indivually targeted by the IDF. The wealthy left and the poor the old and the infirm were left to be bombed. Israel did not drop leaflets in Beirut. Also do you honestly think that dropping leaflets before bombing women and children justifies the act? Please do answer that.

In order to counter the argument that Israel was bombing Beirut 'indescriminately' they came up with the utter bollocks that they were targeting property individually. Many independent organistions have proven this to be an utter lie. Also if Hezbollah were holed up in basements in Beirut (7,000 of them) then who was fighting (and winning)the battle against the IDF on the border?

Do you think that Hezbollah had an effective Command & Control conducting the war on the border in secret from a basement in Beirut? I can assure you that the war being fought against the IDF was a guerilla war using local commanders on the ground. The bombing of 7,000 homes in Beirut had no effect on how the guerilla war was fought on the border. The bombings were gratuitous, illegal and immoral. Are these the great 'values' to which the West holds dear that you mentioned earlier? The fact the UN did not severly sanction Israel is an outrage. The Arab world feels this outrage very keenly.

You have been lied to and you have believed the lies.

Regards,

Acad

BTW how many Israeli properties did Hizbollah hit with their obsolete fireworks? 120.

The Jewish owners of these properties were given compensation by the israeli goverment. The arab owners were given nothing.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
Acad.

[QUOTE] You seem to have absolute hatred for Bush and Blair and many of the values that the "West" holds dear. Of course I could be wrong on one or all of these counts and would happily stand corrected.


I do not have an absoulute hatred for either Bush or Blair. Please feel free to quote anything that I have said that proves or even suggests that I have an 'abslolute hatred' for either. Yes, I hate much about them and what they have done in the world but to suggest I have an absolute hatred is a nonesense.

Please list those 'values' that the 'west holds dear' that you feel I hate. Please give exact quotes. And bloody good luck to you because you wont find any.

The tone of many of your posts suggests an absolute hatred, which is why I said "you seem to have...". I invited you correct this impression and you have obviously availed yourself of this invitation.

Likewise my invitation with respect to western values. Your tone often suggests hatred. Assuming you haven't made any hatred quotes regarding western values (and I am happy to accept your heated assurance on this matter) am I able to deduce that you hold no hatred of western values?

Cheers

Don

quote:

quote:
Are you of the opinion that the world would be a better place under the influence of such people.


The world is not under the influence of such people - the world is under the influence of Bush and Blair.

I have no time for muslim extremists at all. Not ever. I have no time for extremists of any persuasion.

I'll take that as a "no" then.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by scipio2:
A muslim fanatic has been found guilty of inciting murder and mayhem in the London 'Danish cartoon' protest but will not be sentenced until April. Why not just deport him to an Islamic country and be done with it?

Because he is a British citizen, for one thing.

quote:

BTW how many Israeli properties did Hizbollah hit with their obsolete fireworks? 120.

The Jewish owners of these properties were given compensation by the israeli goverment. The arab owners were given nothing.

I understand that Hezbollah provided compensation to their own people, using funds provided by Iran and Syria and a few other sources.

Seems reasonable to me that each side sorts out its own arrangements.

Cheers

Don

quote:

The bombings were gratuitous, illegal and immoral. Are these the great 'values' to which the West holds dear that you mentioned earlier? The fact the UN did not severly sanction Israel is an outrage. The Arab world feels this outrage very keenly

The Arab world always(*) feels outraged, and its outrage is often unjustified. (*)=figure of speach

Western values do not include gratuitous, illegal or immoral bombings, so are clearly not the 'values' that I mentioned earlier.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
BTW how many Israeli properties did Hizbollah hit with their obsolete fireworks? 120.

Your use of "obsolete fireworks" as a euphemism for deadly weapons is interesting - especially in view of the fact that you have no time for Muslim extremists such as Hizbollah.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:

quote:

BTW how many Israeli properties did Hizbollah hit with their obsolete fireworks? 120.

The Jewish owners of these properties were given compensation by the israeli goverment. The arab owners were given nothing.

I understand that Hezbollah provided compensation to their own people, using funds provided by Iran and Syria and a few other sources.

Seems reasonable to me that each side sorts out its own arrangements.

Cheers

Don

I refer to arab-Israeli citizens Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:

quote:

The bombings were gratuitous, illegal and immoral. Are these the great 'values' to which the West holds dear that you mentioned earlier? The fact the UN did not severly sanction Israel is an outrage. The Arab world feels this outrage very keenly

The Arab world always(*) feels outraged, and its outrage is often unjustified. (*)=figure of speach

Western values do not include gratuitous, illegal or immoral bombings, so are clearly not the 'values' that I mentioned earlier.

Cheers

Don

The arab world rarely feels unjustified outrage in my view. You have yet to detail the 'values' you think I hate and provide evidence.

quote:

Originally posted by JeremyD:

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
BTW how many Israeli properties did Hizbollah hit with their obsolete fireworks? 120.

Your use of "obsolete fireworks" as a euphemism for deadly weapons is interesting - especially in view of the fact that you have no time for Muslim extremists such as Hizbollah.

Most of the rockets were not Katusha rockets (obsolete since 1962)they were homemade copies. In comparison to the state of the art Israeli bombs used to flatten vast tracts of Lebanon they can be said to be both obsolete and firworks. As I said, how many properties did these deadly weapons destroy? Please explain how you think that recognising the disparity between weaponry means I side with Hizbollah?

You have yet to detail the 'values' you think I hate and provide evidence.

Well, although you probably think that I have some kind of obligation to do your bidding, I don't. But then your smilie lets me know that you know this anyway.....

However, I already provided a perfectly good response, which I have highlighted in bold so as to enhance your viewing experience......

quote:

Likewise my invitation with respect to western values. Your tone often suggests hatred. Assuming you haven't made any hatred quotes regarding western values (and I am happy to accept your heated assurance on this matter) am I able to deduce that you hold no hatred of western values?

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
You have yet to detail the 'values' you think I hate and provide evidence.

[QUOTE] Well, although you probably think that I have some kind of obligation to do your bidding, I don't.

This is of course a transparent cop out. You made the allegation so back it up with evidence.

quote:

However, I already provided a perfectly good response, which I have highlighted in bold so as to enhance your viewing experience......

Saying it does not make it so. You have yet to back up your allegation. The 'prefectly good response' is a fiction of your imagination.

quote:

]am I able to deduce that you hold no hatred of western values?

In the complete absense of any evidence then yes you may deduce I hold no hatred of western values. (Unless illegally invading sovereign states and bombing innocent civilians is a western value)

I think the only criticsms I have made are about Bush's intelligence, The far right neocons, electoral fraud, the barking mad 'end timers' the illegal invasion of Iraq, the support for Israel's psychopathic massively disproportionate attack on lebanon and stuff like Prostitution, pornography, drug use and gun crime in the US. Are these western values? Please advise.

The values which most people associate as 'western values' are democracy, care for minorities, freedom of speech, sticking up for the little guy etc. all of which I care passionately about.

Hurry up with the list Don. I am happy to pay a team of researchers to help you sift through all my posts.

No. Are you a member of Taliban?

Are you a member of the BNP? Over to you.[/QUOTE]

Acad,

You made an utterly outragous allegation about the USA and Israel. (not for the first time - and no, I won't provide exact quotes etc etc).

"Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon and tanks to demolish houses in Gaza and bullets to shoot women in the back "

You have had to back-down from this ridiculous position into which you put yourself.

I made a straight forwardward statement of my impression-

"You seem to have absolute hatred for Bush and Blair and many of the values that the "West" holds dear. Of course I could be wrong on one or all of these counts and would happily stand corrected."

which is pretty obvious based on the tone of virtually everything you say in these threads, but I provided you the courtesy to rectify the impression you so often give.

You provided an assurance that you do not absolutely hate either Bush or Blair nor do you hate western values. I accepted your assurance on these matters, as I said I would.

There is no cop-out and no need for a cop-out. The principal point is, you have had to back-down from your initial outragous allegations.

Cheers

Don