Legal procrastination
Posted by: scipio2 on 06 January 2007
A muslim fanatic has been found guilty of inciting murder and mayhem in the London 'Danish cartoon' protest but will not be sentenced until April. Why not just deport him to an Islamic country and be done with it?
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by Don Atkinson:quote:Do you honestly believe Rumsfeld said to Olmert "There you go Ehud, bomb the shit (oops, scatology again) out of Lebanon, but don't you dare kill any women or children"
Nope.
Now, don't go falling into the trap of making rediculous allegations like Acad.
Acad said that the money was given, and I quoute "to bomb children in Lebanon and tanks to demolish houses in Gaza and bullets to shoot women in the back?"
Acad has already suffered a humiliating defeat and had to back down on the issue of shooting women in the back. I am confident that the USA would not have expicitly specified the money for the bombing of children in Lebanon nor the shooting of women in the back. Acad therefore knows his allegation was wrong, but deliberatly chose his words to provoke dislike towards Israel and the USA.
You are in danger of falling into the same trap.
Cheers
Don
What an utter load of tosh. The full quote was:
'Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon and tanks to demolish houses in Gaza and bullets to shoot women in the back?
This does not mean that the US are giving the aid for the expressed or sole use of bombing children and shooting women in the back but it is given by the US and used by Israel 'to bomb children in Lebanon and tanks to demolish houses in Gaza and bullets to shoot women in the back' thus we see you have selectively misquoted me and twisted my words.
The humiliating defeat is yours.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by Malky:
[QUOTE]
Fair enough, there may be some validity in that argument. However, I urge you to acknowledge that support for the 'war on terror' equally has an element of being an excuse for the murderous activities of fundamentalist Christian, George Bush.
Fair enough my arse. I have never ever had the slightest sympathy for radical islam or for muslim terrorists and I never will and if you can show that I have then I extend to you or anyone else the same offer I made to Scipio.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
I note the front cover of today's Independent newspaper concerns how much western companies stand to make out of Iraq and The Times leads with an article about the Israeli's secret plans to nuke Iran. The CIA has already said that the there is NO evidence whatsoever that Iran is building or planning to build nuclear weapons. 
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by Malky
Oh dear, scatology again. Acad, I did not mean to imply that you subscribed to that view. I just get pissed off at the general implication that Islam = mad mullahs and is inferior to 'civilised' Western values. I should have quoted with more attention to detail. Apologies.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
Malky,
Ok no problem. Its easily done. I agree with your views. Most people in the UK and the US are completely clueless as to what is really going on in the world. Did you watch the documentary I posted a link to a few days ago?
How the right manipulates fear
I would advise you all to watch this carefully as it gives a very good broad based overview of the current situation and how we have got here.
Ok no problem. Its easily done. I agree with your views. Most people in the UK and the US are completely clueless as to what is really going on in the world. Did you watch the documentary I posted a link to a few days ago?
How the right manipulates fear
I would advise you all to watch this carefully as it gives a very good broad based overview of the current situation and how we have got here.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by Malky
I must leave this debate now to go and have my dinner. As a great man once said
"Chaps, I must go to pour myself a large malt (with 25% water)".
"Chaps, I must go to pour myself a large malt (with 25% water)".
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by Roy T
quote:The difference is the Saudis have to pay for the arms they are not given of free of charge Roll Eyes
of charge
Acad, does this mean that all arms to Israel from the USA are given free of charge by the USA and that no money changes hands?
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by Roy T:quote:The difference is the Saudis have to pay for the arms they are not given of free of charge Roll Eyes
of charge
Acad, does this mean that all arms to Israel from the USA are given free of charge by the USA and that no money changes hands?
Not exactly Roy. What happens is the US Government gives the tax payers money (most tax payers in the US have no idea how much)in the form of aid from it's Overseas Aid budget (40 % of its annual budget to be precise)and the Israelis use it to buy arms from the US. Thus senior US government officals give the US tax payers hard earned money so that Israel can buy weapons from companies owned by those very same senior govenrment officals. So they are free in a sense and money does change hands in a sense. I cannot say that all arms are bought from the money the US gives Israel but it would be a moot point I think.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by Don Atkinson
Posted by Acad on Page 2
"For the record - I am not not now nor have I ever ben a muslim of any type and nor will I ever be - in fact I do not even believe in God nor will I ever believe in God. I am as far from being a muslim as it is possible to be. I have read the Koran and it is as full of nonesense as the bible is. Even if I were marooned on a dessert island with nothing ever to read except the Koran (or bible)I would use the pages to wipe my backside without the slightest speck of guilt."
Posted by Acad above
"I have never said I am not religious - this is your assumption."
Now, English wasn't my strongest subject at school, so perhaps some of you other good chaps could provide your interpretation of the above.
Cheers
Don
"For the record - I am not not now nor have I ever ben a muslim of any type and nor will I ever be - in fact I do not even believe in God nor will I ever believe in God. I am as far from being a muslim as it is possible to be. I have read the Koran and it is as full of nonesense as the bible is. Even if I were marooned on a dessert island with nothing ever to read except the Koran (or bible)I would use the pages to wipe my backside without the slightest speck of guilt."
Posted by Acad above
"I have never said I am not religious - this is your assumption."
Now, English wasn't my strongest subject at school, so perhaps some of you other good chaps could provide your interpretation of the above.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
One can be religious without believing in God. There are religions that do not believe in God. You see the answer is simple enough Don. The Dalai lama is a deeply religious man who does not believe in God. Jains dont believe in God and nor do Hindus or Pagans.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by Roy T
quote:I cannot say that all arms are bought from the money the US gives Israel but it would be a moot point I think.
So why say it?
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by Roy T:quote:I cannot say that all arms are bought from the money the US gives Israel but it would be a moot point I think.
So why say it?
Say what?
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by bornwina
[quote]in fact I do not even believe in God nor will I ever believe in God. I am as far from being a muslim as it is possible to be. I have read the Koran and it is as full of nonesense as the bible is. Even if I were marooned on a dessert island with nothing ever to read except the Koran (or bible)I would use the pages to wipe my backside without the slightest speck of guilt.
So that means you wish for all us following this debate to believe you are not religeous I guess?
"I have never said I am not religeous - this is your assumption."
Oh, perhaps not, then what was the point of making it? To open up debate on spirituality?
"One can be religious without believing in God. There are religions that do not believe in God. You see the answer is simple enough Don. The Dalai lama is a deeply religious man who does not believe in God. Jains dont believe in God and nor do Hindus or Pagans."
Oh, I see, to draw the casual reader into one quite reasonable assumption and then use your denial as an opportunity display your "greater" intellect and knowledge of things religeous? Maybe you like being a smart alec?
Regards neo-cons and flag raising - you've lost me with your jargon - are you suggesting you believe some 'conspiracy theory' surrounding 9/11 & 7/7. As you are someone insistant on facts and figures to support allegations I'd be most surprised were you able to supply anything to convince me that the US/UK governments organised a group of foreign terrorist to wreak the death and havoc in these events.
Main problem/lesser problem - that depends entirely on your perspective. Would Afghanistan/Iraq have been invaded had Al Queda not sent the airliners in? I doubt it.
So the point of your postings here is to educate us by drawing attention to things we didn't already know - I'm sure we are all most grateful - it is a priviledge that is not enjoyed by all in the world to live in a country that allows free speech - I wonder how well informed the Iraqi's were by their media prior to invasion?
So that means you wish for all us following this debate to believe you are not religeous I guess?
"I have never said I am not religeous - this is your assumption."
Oh, perhaps not, then what was the point of making it? To open up debate on spirituality?
"One can be religious without believing in God. There are religions that do not believe in God. You see the answer is simple enough Don. The Dalai lama is a deeply religious man who does not believe in God. Jains dont believe in God and nor do Hindus or Pagans."
Oh, I see, to draw the casual reader into one quite reasonable assumption and then use your denial as an opportunity display your "greater" intellect and knowledge of things religeous? Maybe you like being a smart alec?
Regards neo-cons and flag raising - you've lost me with your jargon - are you suggesting you believe some 'conspiracy theory' surrounding 9/11 & 7/7. As you are someone insistant on facts and figures to support allegations I'd be most surprised were you able to supply anything to convince me that the US/UK governments organised a group of foreign terrorist to wreak the death and havoc in these events.
Main problem/lesser problem - that depends entirely on your perspective. Would Afghanistan/Iraq have been invaded had Al Queda not sent the airliners in? I doubt it.
So the point of your postings here is to educate us by drawing attention to things we didn't already know - I'm sure we are all most grateful - it is a priviledge that is not enjoyed by all in the world to live in a country that allows free speech - I wonder how well informed the Iraqi's were by their media prior to invasion?
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by bornwina
quote:What an utter load of tosh. The full quote was:
'Maybe the Americans should stop funding Israel to the tune of £15million per day to buy US arms to bomb children in Lebanon and tanks to demolish houses in Gaza and bullets to shoot women in the back?
This does not mean that the US are giving the aid for the expressed or sole use of bombing children and shooting women in the back but it is given by the US and used by Israel 'to bomb children in Lebanon and tanks to demolish houses in Gaza and bullets to shoot women in the back' thus we see you have selectively misquoted me and twisted my words.
The humiliating defeat is yours
Acad - I read your posting as Don does, it says the US lend the money so Israel buys the weapons to bomb children - you may not have meant this but it's there in black and white and as it was your first post when, perhaps, your guard was down is rather revealing of the entrenchment of your opinions and rather devalues your protestations of being pacifist and intimations from your posts that you are moderate.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by bornwina:quote:
[QUOTE] Oh, I see, to draw the casual reader into one quite reasonable assumption and then use your denial as an opportunity display your "greater" intellect and knowledge of things religeous?
Exactly right. I was wondering who was going to be stupud enough to walk into the trap, admitteldy I thought it was going to be you or Scipio.
quote:Regards neo-cons and flag raising - you've lost me with your jargon - are
Of course I have lost you (believe me it aint exactly hard is it?)- firstly may I suggest you google the term 'neocons' and you will see the term is in common day-to-day usage. As for the term 'flag waving' I can categorically state without fear of contraction that I have never used the term on this thread. I did however use the term 'false flag' - you may like to google that too. Dont bother I will do it for you False Flag and Neocons
quote:are you suggesting you believe some 'conspiracy theory' surrounding 9/11 & 7/7. As you are someone insistant on facts and figures to support allegations I'd be most surprised were you able to supply anything to convince me that the US/UK governments organised a group of foreign terrorist to wreak the death and havoc in these events.
Loose Change - A documentary
Watch this. Dont just watch it and say 'I dont believe it' - if you think it is wrong then offer some refutations.
The science of 9/11
quote:Main problem/lesser problem - that depends entirely on your perspective.
Do you know anything that doesnt rely on perspective?
quote:Would Afghanistan/Iraq have been invaded had Al Queda not sent the airliners in? I doubt it.
Why should Iraq and Afghanistan be invaded even if Al-Qaeda sent the airliners in? What is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan?
quote:So the point of your postings here is to educate us by drawing attention to things we didn't already know
Yes.
quote:I'm sure we are all most grateful - it is a priviledge that is not enjoyed by all in the world to live in a country that allows free speech
Yes, this is one of the things I love about the UK
I wonder how well informed the Iraqi's were by their media prior to invasion?
What is your point?
Keep it coming bornwina. Bornwitless is a better name.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by bornwina:
[QUOTE]
Acad - I read your posting as Don does, it says the US lend the money so Israel buys the weapons to bomb children - you may not have meant this but it's there in black and white and as it was your first post when, perhaps, your guard was down is rather revealing of the entrenchment of your opinions and rather devalues your protestations of being pacifist and intimations from your posts that you are moderate.
Read the full quote. If you need help with the big words just ask or get a dictionary. What I said is clear enough but if you are too witless to understand then at least know that it hardly matters - the fact is Israel does bomb children - it does bulldoze the houses of innocent Palestinians and it does shoot innocent women in the back and the US gives them $billions in aid which enables the Israelis to do it and this at least is beyond any possible debate and all of your witless posturing (Don & scipios too)is about deflecting attention from this which is the real point not some debatably debatable grammatical imprecision. Many of the points I have raised go unchallenged because they cant be challenged and many of the challenges I have made have been ignored because those who have been challenged dont have an answer so they concentrate on some minor point of linguistic pedentry to save face. Transparent and pathetic.
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by bornwina
quote:Exactly right. I was wondering who was going to be stupud enough to walk into the trap, admitteldy I thought it was going to be you or Scipio.
Banal comment
quote:Why should Iraq and Afghanistan be invaded even if Al-Qaeda sent the airliners in? What is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan?
IMO they shouldn't have been, but it was a catalyst in the invasions.
quote:What is your point?
Simply broadening the thought process to include the plight of the Iraqi's and their ability to gain a realistic and balanced view of their country's relationship with the West as reported by the Iraqi press as a counterpoint to your comment that you see this 'debate' as an opportunity for you to do us all a favour and counterbalance the Islamophobic Western press which we all believe of course.
quote:As for the term 'flag waving'
Pedantic - why bother?
quote:you will see the term is in common day-to-day usage
Not in my sixth form common room it isn't!
quote:if you think it is wrong then offer some refutations.
Oh come on.
quote:Bornwitless is a better name
Yeah whatever - back to school tomorrow is it?
Posted on: 07 January 2007 by bornwina
quote:Read the full quote. If you need help with the big words just ask or get a dictionary. What I said is clear enough but if you are too witless to understand then at least know that it hardly matters
I'll avoid the attempts at condecension but ask you to have the courtesy to read my words in detail. What you say is absolutely clear and I quibble not over language but the illumination your language supplies, particularly at the point in the debate when you were not being questionned by all and sundry. It reveals that in your mind, whether it was kneejerk reaction or measured response, you believe that the US gives money to Israel so they can bomb Palestinians (or defend themselves - depending on your reading of the matter) - that is not true.
Yes - we all know the US supplies aid to Israel and some is spent on arms - why wouldn't it be especially with Israel extensive historic issues with it's neighbours?
I do not understand why you would anticipate any or all of your points to be challenged - self flattery or self flagellation?
Not sure what you are getting at re 'transparent' - what are you suggesting, those of us that have issues about your anti Western sentiment are raving Islamaphobics? Why not stop bullshitting and get it all off your chest?
Posted on: 08 January 2007 by scipio2
Quote by Acad: "Give me an example where I have done. If you can do this I will donate £5,000 to the charity of your choice. If you cannot do this you must donate £5,000 to a charity of my choice. Do you want to take me on?"
Acad,your first post on this topic was nothing more than an attempt to excuse and justify the murderous activities of Islamic fanatics who in your view are doing no more than protesting against being 'pushed around', whilst the wallah who was recently convicted of inciting murder at the 'cartoon' protest in London was in your view doing no such thing.
Come off it, Acad, you are an aplologist for Islam in all its horror so cut the cackle about donating to charities. No doubt we both do that already although to very different causes.
Acad,your first post on this topic was nothing more than an attempt to excuse and justify the murderous activities of Islamic fanatics who in your view are doing no more than protesting against being 'pushed around', whilst the wallah who was recently convicted of inciting murder at the 'cartoon' protest in London was in your view doing no such thing.
Come off it, Acad, you are an aplologist for Islam in all its horror so cut the cackle about donating to charities. No doubt we both do that already although to very different causes.
Posted on: 08 January 2007 by i am simon 2
Why do some Muslims get so upset about Isreal (and the Jewish population of the World)?
There are only 5 million people in Isreal, and 15 million Jews in total.
There are circa 1.2 billion Muslims, almost 100 times more.
Furthermore even if there is £X per year of aid from the US, the surrounding Islamic countries are some of the richest in the world, by way of their oil.
Al Queda does not exist? Tell that to 3000 families in NYC and 50 odd in London.
Kind regards
Simon
There are only 5 million people in Isreal, and 15 million Jews in total.
There are circa 1.2 billion Muslims, almost 100 times more.
Furthermore even if there is £X per year of aid from the US, the surrounding Islamic countries are some of the richest in the world, by way of their oil.
Al Queda does not exist? Tell that to 3000 families in NYC and 50 odd in London.
Kind regards
Simon
Posted on: 08 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by scipio2:
quote:Acad,your first post on this topic was nothing more than an attempt to excuse and justify the murderous activities of Islamic fanatics
Quote me. Show me where I did anything even remotely like make excuses. The fact is you can't read with understanding.
quote:who in your view are doing no more than protesting against being 'pushed around', whilst the wallah who was recently convicted of inciting murder at the 'cartoon' protest in London was in your view doing no such thing.
I never said doing 'no more than' or anything remotely similar. I did not say he was not inciting to murder I said that no one was actually murdered as a result of his incitment.
quote:Come off it, Acad, you are an aplologist for Islam in
Show me where I have done this. Quote me. It is clear you are a religious bigot.
You owe Amnesty International £5,000. Pay up like a good chap. You have no evidence to support your looney claims at all. Not one word.
Posted on: 08 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by bornwina:
[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Why should Iraq and Afghanistan be invaded even if Al-Qaeda sent the airliners in? What is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan?
IMO they shouldn't have been, but it was a catalyst in the invasions.
quote:No, it was a totally unjustified excuse for the invasions. There has never been so much a single atom of evidence that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Fact.
quote:What is your point?
quote:
Simply broadening the thought process to include the plight of the Iraqi's and their ability to gain a realistic and balanced view of their country's relationship with the West as reported by the Iraqi press as a counterpoint to your comment that you see this 'debate' as an opportunity for you to do us all a favour and counterbalance the Islamophobic Western press which we all believe of course.
The 'counterbalance' you refer to is appropriate. The Iraqi people were lied to also.
quote:As for the term 'flag waving'
Pedantic - why bother?
quote:To educate you.
quote:you will see the term is in common day-to-day usage
Not in my sixth form common room it isn't!
quote:The fact that others are also ignorant of the term does not mean that you should not have heard of it or I should not have used it.
quote:if you think it is wrong then offer some refutations.
Oh come on.
quote:If you can prove the US governments statement as to why the towers collapsed you can win a million dollar prize. Why not give it ago?
Broaden your education here: The Power of Nightmares pt1,2,and 3
Posted on: 08 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by i am simon 2:
Why do some Muslims get so upset about Isreal (and the Jewish population of the World)?
If you seriously don't know you can read a sanitized history of the events that some muslims get upset about. Remember that many of the Palestinians forced out of their homes at gun point were/are Christian and that therefore the antipathy towards israel is not just confined to Muslims and is directed in the main at Zionists as opposed to Jews per se.
Palestinian Exodus
Please note that neutrality of this article is hotly disputed by both sides and you can see this by clicking on the Talk Page
Or better still you could read:
Posted on: 08 January 2007 by bornwina
This is all getting a little tiresome but one more go;
Mere semantics - the result was the same.
Did I say you shouldn't use it? I said it was jargon. It is jargon. Please pay £5000 to my preffered charity.
I don't need to know the US govts reason for the fall of the towers nor do I need to prove it because I saw it on telly myself - two planes, piloted by people with no regard for human life, crashed into them - have you not seen the footage?
I daresay if your google fetish found a website the content of which appealed to your entrenched views that screened some grainy 'documentary' entitled 'An American myth: the Moon is not made of cheese' then you'd believe it
You make this sound like some revalation - of course the average Muslim is ambivalent to the average Jew and vice versa.
I wonder what your solution, were you the Israeli president, would be to terrorists going unchecked in a neighbouring country indescriminately shooting rockets into your towns and sending brainwashed maniacs into you public spaces to blow themselves and as many innocent bystanders to pieces?
quote:No, it was a totally unjustified excuse for the invasions.
Mere semantics - the result was the same.
quote:The fact that others are also ignorant of the term does not mean that you should not have heard of it or I should not have used it.
Did I say you shouldn't use it? I said it was jargon. It is jargon. Please pay £5000 to my preffered charity.
quote:If you can prove the US governments statement as to why the towers collapsed you can win a million dollar prize. Why not give it ago?
I don't need to know the US govts reason for the fall of the towers nor do I need to prove it because I saw it on telly myself - two planes, piloted by people with no regard for human life, crashed into them - have you not seen the footage?
quote:Broaden your education here:...
I daresay if your google fetish found a website the content of which appealed to your entrenched views that screened some grainy 'documentary' entitled 'An American myth: the Moon is not made of cheese' then you'd believe it
quote:is directed in the main at Zionists as opposed to Jews per se
You make this sound like some revalation - of course the average Muslim is ambivalent to the average Jew and vice versa.
I wonder what your solution, were you the Israeli president, would be to terrorists going unchecked in a neighbouring country indescriminately shooting rockets into your towns and sending brainwashed maniacs into you public spaces to blow themselves and as many innocent bystanders to pieces?
Posted on: 08 January 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:Originally posted by bornwina:
[QUOTE] This is all getting a little tiresome but one more go;
Then give it up - you are obviously out of your depth
quote:
Mere semantics - the result was the same.
This is crass in the extreme. There are International laws governing the reasons for waging war. It is against these laws to invade another sovereign state on the mere suspicion that they have WMD (in fact the only country in the middle east with undeclared nuclear and biological and chemical weapons is er....Israel). No WMD was found prior to the invasion and none found after the invasion. It is illegal to invade another country on the mere suspician that it may have had something to do with a terrorist act. There was not the slightest evidence to even hint that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Both the erroneous 9/11 linkage and WMD issue have been widely admitted by government officials in the US. The US will likely turn on Blair and his 'sexed up dossier' of bogus Intelligence to act as a scapegoat, and why not? He is as guilty as sin. To call the bogus reasons for invading another country 'mere semantics' is proof you do not have the first clue what you are talking about. Those guilty of waging an illegal law are war criminals and should be impeached. I am hopeful that they will be. Over 650,000 have died as a result of an illegal war. This is not mere semantics.
quote:Did I say you shouldn't use it? I said it was jargon. It is jargon. Please pay £5000 to my preffered charity.
The offer was made to get you to prove your moronic claim and you have singularly failed to do it. It had nothing to do with whether I can use the words 'neocon' or 'false flag'. Obviously.
quote:I don't need to know the US govts reason for the fall of the towers nor do I need to prove it because I saw it on telly myself - two planes, piloted by people with no regard for human life, crashed into them - have you not seen the footage?
Wrong again. The towers were built to withstand the force of 747 Jets flying into them so why did they collapse? Watch the film and learn and stop being so tedious. You have been given the chance to learn something. If you watch the films you will see a good deal of evidence, you may not accept the evidence as proof but you will at the very least see evidence - a good deal of it. Many muslims are locked up in Guantanamo without evidence, without charge and without trial against the Geneva convention. If we were to apply the same lack of legal standards to the 9/11 tragedy then Bush and Co. would be rotting in jail already.
quote:I daresay if your google fetish found a website the content of which appealed to your entrenched views that screened some grainy 'documentary' entitled 'An American myth: the Moon is not made of cheese' then you'd believe it
And the evidence for that is what exactly? You have yet to offer one atom of evidence to contradict anything I have said.
quote:You make this sound like some revalation - of course the average Muslim is ambivalent to the average Jew and vice versa.
The word is 'revelation' and do you know what 'ambivalent' means?
quote:I wonder what your solution, were you the Israeli president, would be to terrorists going unchecked in a neighbouring country indescriminately shooting rockets into your towns and sending brainwashed maniacs into you public spaces to blow themselves and as many innocent bystanders to pieces?
My solution would be to get out of Arab lands and implement the hitherto ignored UN resolutions against my country. My solution would be to give the arabs in gaza their water and electricity back and allow them out of the enforced ghetto so they could work and their children could go to school. My solution would be give them equal rights. My solution would be to stop practicing apartheid. My solution would be to stop bulldozing arab homes to make way for more jewish settlers and to give up the master plan of a gentile free Israel. My plan would be to build bridges not bomb them. My plan would be to fully integrate with my fellow human beings not segregate them, marginalise them and break their hearts. It is really rather easy. My plan would be to break down barriers not build them. My plan would be to share the land with my brothers. The label 'jew' and 'arab' is less important than the label 'human'. One thing I would not do is cripple an entire country and murder or maim thousands of its innocent people as Israel did recently in an act so barbaric that protests took place in just about every country in the world while the US looked on and supplied more arms (bunker buster bombs particularly). We can be sure that this action has done wonders for Hezbollah recruitment and this is why all such actions are not just futile they are counter-productive. Israel is not a safer place now. It has just recruited more people to hate it. How clever is that?
Where many of you have gone so deeply astray on this thread is indicative of a seriously flawed mindset. If someone criticises A you automatically assume they side with B or vice versa. This is the Bush mentality of 'you are either with us or against us'. Some of us are neither. I do not descriminate between Jew and arab the labels are mere conventions - I only descriminate between 'victim' and 'persecutor' and I try to understand the motives of the latter without sanctioning their behaviour, thus I understand why a people kicked out of their homes might want to fight back but I utterly reject the use of violence to do so. I dont see things in black and white like the moron in the white house I see human suffering and its causes and I abhor it wherever it exists and right now there is more of it in gaza and Beirut than the whole of Israel and recognising this does not make me a muslim or a muslim sympathiser or a muslim apologist it makes me a person who is against causing suffering to ANY human being regardless of race, creed or nationality.