Hearsay - or the truth - what do you believe

Sounds so familiar.

"Arghhh! I've been messing around with this stuff for days,
and I just can't manage to create a credible bomb with this stuff!"

"Look, we have to get on that airplane.
Just put it all in the bag, and We'll figure out a way to finish this on the plane."

Who cares if it was this stuff or whatever...

Would you like to have been in a plane with a big fire started with Acetone? & it is very, very easy to obtain unlike what it says in that story.

If the plot is fact then I hope they get all they deserve, irrespective of whether their bomb making skills were good or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve2701:

If the plot is fact then I hope they get all they deserve, irrespective of whether their bomb making skills were good or not.

And if the plot was made up to keep you nice and scared and your mind on those nasty terrorists? What do those people deserve?

quote:

Originally posted by AlexanderVH:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve2701:

If the plot is fact then I hope they get all they deserve, irrespective of whether their bomb making skills were good or not.

And if the plot was made up to keep you nice and scared and your mind on those nasty terrorists? What do those people deserve?

Then they will inevitably bankrupt the UK with compensation claims.

So you actually think that all this is a scam?

No I think its a bunch of silly people being taken in by a bunch of clever people.

One thing is for certain whilst all this shit remains the UK government which earns an average of £60k a year each should get off their collective lazy fat arses and come back to work because frankly an 80 day recess in the summer is just a joke any way.

They are the real scammers.

Hello Steve,

I was contrasting your emotional reaction to the news about the plot with the idea that someone might be pushing your emotional buttons.
I'm not concluding this is all a scam.

I don't doubt the truth of the article, that the mentioned scenario is improbable.
The relevance of the article is harder to assess.

- with inventiveness, knowhow, and effort it may be possible to make such a 2-component liquid bomb work anyway.

- is the writer debunking the actual plot details, or something else
(I can't tell, I don't follow this stuff close enough).
There are many ways to provoke disasters on planes.

- there do exist people who plot to bomb planes.

- there are people who want terror bomb plots to be on everyone's mind.
It has been a political tool in the US for the last 5 years.
Possibly in the UK some people are also discovering its value.
I don't remember if there was a lot of concern about terror during the last elections in the UK.

quote:

Then they will inevitably bankrupt the UK with compensation claims.

- Bluntly making things up is a bit risky indeed. It's important not to be caught on a blatant lie.
But it is a lot safer to work like this:
- act very worried on vague indications

- take large scale precautions , as has been happening with boarding airplanes.

- leak wild speculations.

It is possible to whip up a frenzy on no base at all.
After all, all this stuff at airports, there must be something to it, no?

- The fact of putting everthing on highest alert and everyone on edge creates its own false alerts,
which feed into the news chain. It's the nature of news to highlight the alert,
Even if they give attention to the fact that it's later proven false, the ideas affect you.

- Here is an overview of recent false alerts: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0817/dailyUpdate.html

- The blog of Craig Murray http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/ has a piece on august 14th,
and some followup on the 17th and 18th.
He's only using 'open sources' here, so in principle he doesn't know anymore than anyone else.
But he's well aware of the fact that in intelligence, there is always enough material
available to create the story you need.

He mentions the rumour of using baby bottles and "using the baby to hide a bomb".
Who knows, people do weird things. I think this rumour smells of psyops.

Quote from an article in the http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HH18Df03.html:

quote:

Reports have appeared that the British security agencies were feeling
increasingly uncomfortable that their American counterparts
rushed to make out that the alleged plot was linked to al-Qaeda.
More importantly, it appears that sources in London have begun
distancing themselves from the plot by claiming that the British side
was pressured from Washington to go public with the plot despite a lack of evidence and
clear and convincing facts whether any conspiracy in fact existed at all.

So british security agencies were at some unknown stage of investigation and then they had to hand over control.
Was there something or not? Did they already know there was something going on.
or were they just monitoring candidates, eg people who often go to Pakistan?

The point is, that it probably didn't matter.

Ferries, anyone? I like ferries! At least they take a decent length of time to sink! Well maybe not the Ro-ro-ro ones, but a decent North Sea type ferry with decent bulk-heads and cargo doors...

My favoutie was not a ferry at all but a proper ship called the Breamar [only 6,000 tonnes], which was in Fred Olsen's fleet, and the cars were loaded with a crane! The good old days or what!

Fredrik

quote:

At least they take a decent length of time to sink! Well maybe not the Ro-ro-ro ones, but a decent North Sea type ferry with decent bulk-heads and cargo doors...

Remember Zeebrugge? Must remember to close the doors.
We always used Townsen Thoreson,they did a great breakfast with unlimited toast and tea/coffee. British Rail didn't.

It also takes one hell of a time to get to New York or even LA.

Howard

I've seen Die Hard 3 so I know it's all true.

Cheers

It is interesting to read newspaper reports that go something like this:

'Police raided the home of a man said by neighbours to be of asian appearence and removed suspicious articles including a computer, maps, notebooks, address books and a list of phone numbers'.

I laugh at this because with in arms reach I have: a computer, maps, notebooks, address books and a list of phone numbers.

If any of you have similar to hand then no doubt you too can expect a visit from plod sometime soon?

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Ferries, anyone? I like ferries! At least they take a decent length of time to sink! Well maybe not the Ro-ro-ro ones, but a decent North Sea type ferry with decent bulk-heads and cargo doors...

My favoutie was not a ferry at all but a proper ship called the Breamar [only 6,000 tonnes], which was in Fred Olsen's fleet, and the cars were loaded with a crane! The good old days or what!

Fredrik

Another vote for ferries, never had any problems with these or these

Alexander,
Your comments on :- The alledged plot to destroy the world trade centre.

Some men have been seen buying knives.
Some men have been seen buying copies of microsoft flight simulator.
Some men have been taught how to fly using real flight simulators in real flight schools.
These men are dangerous and could have killed thousands of innocent people.

How much ridicule would that plan/plot have been given ?

Another example straight from 13.30 channel 5 news. During a report about the israeli breaking of the ceasefire agreement. The presenter said Israel had broken the ceasefire in order to stop 'arms smuggling'. How is it that when and if Hezbollah receives weapons from Iran it is called 'smuggling'? What words do we use when Israel receives arms from the US?? (often via British airports)

The language used in this propaganda is rather obvious for those who have the wit to see it for what it is. It is sometimes subtle but it is always pernicious.

Look what happens when hearsay and rumors stalk the press, tv and airlines.

Steve,

I hope your announcement would not have been based just on those 3 findings. But I agree that had the WTC plot been uncovered beforehand, it would have met some ridicule, at least at first. Which is much better than scaring everyone into a patriot.

There are two different things: terror scare and terror plots. I tried to make clear that distrusting the first does not mean disregarding the second. The Guardian (or someone over there) thinks there are enough indications to show the intent was there. The article at the Register proves a certain scenario won't work. Maybe that proves that the writer is smart but not very imaginative.

As for ridicule, I'm pleased to announce two new airport devices for detecting critical explosives such as nitroglycerin and TATP powder: LUGSHAKE (TM) for luggage and JUGSHAKE (TM) for people. Uses infrasound.

Here is a video that couples 10 political events (in the US)with 10 terror alerts. This process of making sense brings risks with it. Take a random date for announcing a terror threat, then try to make sense of it by matching it with a political event. Anyway, I agree with the video.

So do I. A similar film could be made about events here in England. Once you get a feel for the way this all works it becomes crystal clear what is really going on. The relentless correlation has no subtlety to it at all.