Pioneer-TAD drivers on DBLs
Posted by: Idris Mohammed on 02 March 2002
I was examining the foam surround of the ATC drivers and wondered how much longer will they last in Singapore's very humid weather.
On the other hand I had a look at the surround of the TAD drivers and noticed that they use a "crepe rolled cloth" type. This I know will last quite a long time as compared to the foam surrounds.
Any thoughts on this matter from anyone especially the people from Naim?
You are taking the piss...right??
Sorry but the DBL is Large but Perfectly Formed.
Why would you possibly want to mess with it...?
Seriously man, get a grip.
[This message was edited by redeye on SUNDAY 03 March 2002 at 06:28.]
"Sorry but the DBL is Large but Perfectly Formed.
Why would you possibly want to mess with it...?"
Hello Redeye,
The DBLs can be further improved I believe if the foam surround on the 15" ATC bass drivers were replaced with something more durable that won't disintigrate every 4 to 5 years.
After all a louspeaker at that price level is expected to last for longer than that.
Reconing will definitely change the sound of the loudspeaker and will have to go through a "running-in" process. Those who are familiar with the TAD drivers will know what I mean.
Maybe Naim chose the ATC 15" because it is much cheaper than the TAD drivers; I don't know.
In any case I will have to decide whether to go for a recone when the time comes eventually; change to another brand new ATC driver or figure out whether I can fit the TAD drivers in place of the ATC.
It'll be interesting to find out what kind of sound I will get with the TAD drivers.
Who's to say that the TAD drivers (whose studio pedigree exists primarily in power handling, not tonal accuracy) wouldn't disintegrate in a completely different way (say, adhesive)?
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
Durability does not imply equal (or decent) sound quality. Spend the money elsewhere, say, in climate control (air conditioning, dehumidifier), as this will extend the longevity of _many_ products in your home.Who's to say that the TAD drivers (whose studio pedigree exists primarily in power handling, not tonal accuracy) wouldn't disintegrate in a completely different way (say, adhesive)?
Hello David,
Point well taken. I guess dehumidifying my house is not cost effective. I think I will have to settle for the driver change when the time comes. I guess like many things in life nothing lasts forever. In the meantime I am really enjoying the music coming out of the DBLs. CHEERS!
[This message was edited by Martin M on MONDAY 04 March 2002 at 14:26.]
quote:
Originally posted by Martin M:
Idris, you live in Singapore without Air Conditioning? You just be superhuman![This message was edited by Martin M on MONDAY 04 March 2002 at 14:26.]
Hello Martin,
It's a matter of getting used to it. Even though I have air-conditioning for all my rooms except the kitchen and toilets; I don't leave it on 24 hours a day-the electricity bill will kill me.
I do however switch the air-conditioning when the weather gets too warm for comfort.
However there are many Singaporeans who manage to lead comfortable living without air-conditioning -they make do with fans.
I guess you get used to your environment over a period of time.
I know that you can buy Air Conditioning controllers that measure that the humidity as well as temperature and control the Air Con accordingly. One of these babies may well save you whole lot of electricity and drive units. Sorry I can't recall the manufacturer. I would imagine they'd be pretty easy to track down in Singapore.
PS I have the same problem but not as bad - the air con gets a blast evey few hours in the summer and all evening. The walls get damp otherwise. No problems with the ATCs so far, just suffer from sore throats in the morning!
I have my DBLs since 98. No signs of deterioration whatsoever. I have mine set up in a room and I only turn on the a/c when it gets unbearably hot and humid.
So, if DBLs use the cheaper driver, I can see your logic that these more expensive TAD drivers could be better. How much do each cost, do you know? (I have Credos so will not change either driver, thanks very much, but I'm curious of the price and price difference of the ones you're talking about).
Lindsay
quote:
Originally posted by Idris Mohammed:
Maybe Naim chose the ATC 15" because it is much cheaper than the TAD drivers; I don't know.
Idris (or anyone),
do you know which of the four variants of the driver available from ATC are used in the DBL?
cheers, Martin
quote:
do you know which of the four variants of the driver available from ATC are used in the DBL?
From what I remember the ATC driver used in the DBL is extensively reworked by Naim, leaving pretty much only the basket and surround in the original state. I believe that JVs impression was that ATC makes great baskets, but not necessarily great drivers. It seems unlikely that the stock Pioneer driver would cost more than the Naim rebuilt ATC ones.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
If you move at a Singaporean pace, live in a house designed for the climate (small windows and ventilation just below the roof), it can be quite livable, even without the aircon blasting 24 hours a day. Of course, if you don't screen the vents you may have to deal with birds in the house, but....
Mad dogs and Englishmen (and other descendants of imperialists) go out in the mid-day sun in their wool, 3 piece suits. Really dumb when 2 degrees above the equator.
Phil
quote:
Originally posted by David Ng:
Idris,I have my DBLs since 98. No signs of deterioration whatsoever. I have mine set up in a room and I only turn on the a/c when it gets unbearably hot and humid.
Hello David,
So far I only had mine for less than a year but from my years of experience in playing around with speakers, I know for a fact that the surround will not be able to last more than 5 years in Singapore's weather.
It's no doubt that the sound of the DBLs is fantastic by any measure- I am just comapring the surround of the ATC drivers which is foam in this case with the ones on the TAD drivers which is cloth.
It could be that Naim chose the foam surround because of sound quality more than anything else. One interesting fact though is that Naim chose to use rubber as the surround material on the rest of their cheaper louspeaker models which will definitely last a long long time.
I can only assume that if rubber were to used on the 15" it will sound bad.
Also an intersting fact is that so far (to my knowledge) only the following manufaturers use foam surround in their loudspeaker drivers: JBL, CERWIN-VEGA,ATC (ONLY THE 15"), AUDIO NOTE, Audio Research in the 1980's. The rest of the world seems to be using rubber.
quote:
Originally posted by Linds:
IdrisSo, if DBLs use the cheaper driver, I can see your logic that these more expensive TAD drivers could be better. How much do each cost, do you know? (I have Credos so will not change either driver, thanks very much, but I'm curious of the price and price difference of the ones you're talking about).
Hello Linds,
According to the list I got from Solen, Inc the ATC 15" retails for US$522.13 each but this was in 1998. The TAD retails for in excess of US$900 each (current).
Lindsay