A question ?????

your question could be based on a generalization. not ALL people on this forum are dedicated to things NAIM. i have seen many postings talking about alternative products other manuf. linn, exposure, rega, shahinian, b&w, neat ... to name but a few. the list is actually very long.

however, i would guess that a lot of the contributors to this forum own naim and obviously enthuse about an investment that allows them to enjoy music at home.

i would like to consider myself to be in this group of music/naim enthusiasts. both of my hifi systems are predominantly naim, except linn lp12, Linn Kan and DV XX2 cartridge, and of course the racks (isoblue and QS std).

accepting the vinyl section, it is very unlikely that i would buy any non-naim stuff --- this is NOT because any non-tested position that "naim equipment is best" -- but for me, the combination of reliability, exemplary customer support (twice, i have had my equipment repaired FOC!!!) and sheer enthusiasm for music will see buying naim-only for some time to come, unless their customer oriented business model changes (god forbid!!).

enjoy

ken

I'm just a marginal member, mostly into music, but I think this is a pretty tolerant place, don't you?

Herm

generally speaking i have exchanged e mails off this site and on this site with members,and they have been enthusiastic about a wide range of manufacturers.
Recently i have been corresponding with mark dunn and we have had a very pleasant time corresponding. I have sent photo's of my systems and am awaiting the return of photo's of his system.

Occassionally i have felt that certain members are less than tolerant to differing views.

regards david

quote:

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I have over the last several years gone through a wide range of equipment and philosophies looking for the unachieveable.

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It may be that this is the crux of the biscuit.

I've not changed my system since 1995, it just seems to work well enough with all sorts of music. The 'obvious' upgrade is ludicrously expensive, so that makes it easy. Not Naim, but the same could apply.

I've had one failure, a tweeter blew during usage by A.N.Other. Because it was melted Linn wouldn't replace it FOC. Which was fair enough. This is the only failure I can recall with any hifi I've ever owned.

Paul

With several thousand members, I guess there are are going to be a few who are less than tolerant.

So WHY,and this is the question i wish to pose,without i hope causing offence, do people on this forum seem so dedicated to all things NAIM

Perhaps its because Naim kit sounds so good on such a wide variety of music and is so utterly reliable and backed up by such superb service that some people decided to actually buy the stuff and then feel they would like to share their experience and good fortune with others, rather than selfishly keeping the good news to themselves....come to think of it, this does sound rather like religion!!!!

Why not join the happy band?? or are we all deluding ourselves??

Well, it is possible. I am thinking about a better power amp at the moment. £10k for a 500 is a lot of labour. So, before parting with the dosh I feel it sensible to try alternatives from outside the Naim range. Do I plonk a Krell FBP600 down on the end of the cds/52 or do i buy a ML 390s/380s/2x436/Salons ? Only one way to find out, arrange dems with a short list of dealers. It takes time and effort on both sides. All the systems sound different, but on balance the 500 still delivers the best overall level of satisfaction IMHO.

So no, I don't think we are deluding ourselves. However, different people do have different tastes and hence some no doubt, prefer a different sound to Naim. Personally, I don't think this is a hanging offence in todays enlightened society....might be different if you live within 5 miles of Salisbury....

Cheers

Don

And is it so surprising to find enthusiasts of Naim gear on the bulletin board sponsored by Naim Audio itself? Sheesh, give me a break.

I think the crux is this: '...looking for the unachievable.'

I guess I'm satisfied that I'll never have Mahler and his VPO or NYPO, Beethoven and his Bosendorfer, Furtwangler and his BPO, Szell and his CO, Dave Van Ronk (RIP), Bo Diddley, Jerry Lee Lewis, or Little Richard in my living room. And I know that if they were in my living room, they wouldn't sound right.

Since I'm not going to get 'the absolute sound', I've chosen to settle for something that is musically involving. Naim was the best when I was looking. They provide good value for money, high reliability, and enough popularity that I can find used equipment when I want it.

And truly, I've never heard anything that sounds as right - for the money - as a 62, 72, 250, CDS. And the ARO and 52 sound just plain RIGHT.

So I make a choice: when I think of going to a store to listen to hifi and compare that with staying home and listening to what I have, it's a no-brainer.

And when I want to upgrade, I have to choose between lots of comparative listening and possibly throwing my system out of balance or just getting better Naim equipment and having all that time to enjoy listening. Again a no-brainer.

You make a different choice. You may be suffering from audiophilia nervosa. OTOH, if I hadn'theard something that sounds right, I could be seeing you at the hifi shop.

If you stick around here, keep a sense of humor! Personally, I think a few heretics help keep things interesting.

Regards.

Phil

In a certain sense, Naim IS indeed a religion. Naim simply DOES NOT impress at first hearing (nor at first sight, as they will sell you equipment which is visually identical at different price levels, and which even at the lowest price level doesn't look as if it's worth anything!), and it is (imho) only in the long run that you get to appreciate that Naim's musicality is more rewarding than the depth / positioning / largeness / stereophonic image / flattering colour / etc. which hifi manufacturers and dealers more easily sell (this is true to such a large extent that I myself feel that Naim equipment needs 'flattering' at a certain stage - I use the colouring of Sonus Faber speakers to do so). I now hardly ever have visitors crediting my hifi (this was much more often the case with my previous "B&O" system) but do have much more visitors wanting to know the references of the discs I'm playing! I think that to a large extent I can credit this to my Naim system - not spectacular, but perfect in making music.

And I admire retailers who sell Naim, as it requires a certain courage to focus on long term satisfaction rather than on easy sales.

(That being said, I would very much appreciate if Naim reintroduced Michel Campus of Stereotypes in Brussels as a Belgian dealer, as he imho was and still is the only of the four Belgian dealers who really followed Naim philosophy and defended it 100%).

Unquote.........

Now don't get me wrong here but are you saying you've never, EVER, been happy with what you've bought?

I know I am.

P

Good point. 'Carl' hit the nail on the head a few posts back.

We're a Godless society (in the main) and have a need to 'belong' to a brotherhood (Ooh er, that was a bit sexist).

We naturally feel at ease around others with the same beliefs and want to distance ourselves from those we 'do not understand'.

Football supporters demonstrate this very well.

I prefer Linn stuff personally.

Your comments reminded me of a poor guy who was eaten by the lions on here because he dared to admit that he listened to a certain gentleman called Phil Collins on his proudly owned Naim system!

David,

Going back to your top posting, it's all down to personal taste. We certainly do not all choose to decorate and furnish our houses the same way, or drive the same make and model of car...how boring that would be!

We should, however, repect and appreciate what others are trying to achieve in whatever aspect of life and the same must hold true in audio circles. However else would the vast array of equipment vying for that position on our equipment racks survive?

In my opinion it is no bad thing that I can visit your home and enjoy listening to your systems so much and, I hope, vice versa. At the end of the day most of us have to choose one main system, which is a very personal thing and also a considerable financial commitment.

I count myself as "one of your friends who has a top flight Naim system",........ long live the expressions "variety is the spice of life"and "there's no accounting for taste".

J. N.

... we turn again to the muses of Flanders and Swan...The Song of Reproduction...

Quote... "I never did care for music much, it's the Hi-Fidelity!"

Nothing could be further from the truth as far as I am concerned.

I find this place tolerant, just don't mention Phil Collins. Topographic Oceans are fine since they are the administrator's favourite.

Regards,

Alex

To J.N. i didnt realise you had changed to Linn!

I thought i listened to a fairly substantial NAIM system last time i was there.

As regards how much eqpt i have had . I still have and use QUAD 11 valves which i bought in about 1980,also have a pair of KEF's that ihave had since about 1970. I love the eqpt as well as listening to the music so have a large amonut of eqpt to choose from.

I hope to visit another NAIM enthusiasts system when he has added his NAP 500.

I like to consider this a fun hobby as well as a means of deriving immense pleasure from listening to music.

regards david

See I can admit it, first stage to recovery, right?

quote:

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I've seen no real evidence of this, Top Cat, Alex S, Steven Toy, Ross Blackman and many others have very little Naim stuff, yet no-one slags their kit off or disses their opinions because of that

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Which is one of the great things about this forum, by and large. Of course, Naim predominates, but everyone is at least aware that it's not the only answer. Mind you, I do have a Nait-2 which is rather natty...

In any case, Naim are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of musical audio - although as manufacturers go they offer a great all-round package - and carefully matched 'mongrel' kit can do the job in an equally musical way, it just depends on your perception of 'musical'.

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

You will have to come out sometime.

I think it’s a commonplace error. The whole purpose of this hobby must be listening to music relatively undisturbed. The illusion described above is only one (though important) aspect of our Moments Musicale.

May I risk a theory. It may be of significance (at least for me) that you did refer just to equipments, not to music arts. Actually, the more equipment you make the less time you’ll have to evaluate them. Maybe what you are searching for is not really the musical, only the acoustical event? Don’t misunderstand me, it’s not a shame and actually that’s the way many of us (including me) decided to join Hi-Fi audio.

When I was young I was the most enthusiastic pop music fan in the city, in company with my friends. The music never sounded me “right”, it was never “Hi-Fi”. (It really wasn’t but it’s another story). Soon I began to “flirt” with classical music. Then I had the feeling that pop simply could not “sound right” because it did not contain the musical virtues that is worth of long-term listening. Getting older and older I listened less and less to pop. On the other side, my friends who did not undertake the (tiresome!) conversion to classical, all gave up music listening. Now they never listen to anything...

Of course I can be wrong. You may assure me you do listen to classical...

graphoman

It never ceases to amaze and confound me that when my buddies and i get together for an evening of musical entertainment we seem to listen differently.

I want to be moved emotionally which means i dont want to hear the speakers and where they are positioned in relation to my listening position.
Which means large sound stage with height width and depth.

Buddies listen for mid range only and dont care about the rest, others listen for bass power and control. Some want to hear the position of the speakers so for them soundstage is less important.

What is consistent is the inconsistency in what we listen for and this intrigues me.
When i was in hifi retail finding out what the client listened for was the way to start to put together a system to satisfy theyre listening preferences. One could try to educate them by advising them on what to listen for, but this could lead to problems.

I personally do not like near field but a buddy has an excellent system based around this premise.
To me it sounds like a hell of a pair of headphones. But he says he likes the immediacy when listening so closely to the speakers.
I much prefer to listen some distance back so that the room acoustic adds a bit of "air" and size to the reproduced sound.
A friend (lucky devil) has a fabulous 30x 20x 13 ft room. Everything i have heard in there sounds fabulous, the room is just so accommodating and tolerant of different pieces of equipment. I hate to leave that room.Also it wont fit in the boot of my car so i cant take it home with me.

I do enjoy going to friends houses for a listen to what they have got and i especially enjoy listening to nmusic that i am not familiar with. This enables me to broaden the range of music that i have in my collection, and that is the whole point of hifi.

regards david

that's an interesting story. So around 1960 you were rocking Budapest, and then you moved to classical?

May I ask - sorry, I'm curious - was it a really hot thing, r & r in the sixties, out there? And what kind of music do you listen to these days? Is there a great orchestra in BP? Are you happy living in BP - music-wise?

Forgive my asking

Herm

Herm,

sorry for making a short story long but it’s about much more than music and it’s not easy to explain to somebody who’ve never lived behind the Iron Curtain. That time, listening to english-american pop (instead of the official Hungarian one), listening to the forbidden and from Hungarian side electronically disturbed broadcast of the Free Europe, acquiring records from abroad on the most difficult ways — well, all these gave us the feeling of showing some political opposition. (There were no other possibility, that’s.) This special mix of feelings, and, of course, the liking of music/acoustic, that of the tape player as the Great Toy, brought us to a funny camp where 6 young fellows (including me) founded the First Hungarian Taping Club...

On the other hand, very soon (at an age of 25) I discovered that listening to any kind of popular music is like talking to a dog: sometime it’s a nice thing but I can’t stand it over 5 minutes. I began to guide my own interest toward classical music because half consciously I felt that only that way could I succeed in keeping my interest for music alive. Sometimes it was an extremely tiresome training, since I don’t have a real musicality. (All this talent in my family was inherited by my younger brother, one of the best Hungarian composer and piano player for theatre and film.) However, what I got from music, was worth of all this great physical suffering.

Sorry for the long story – you have provoked it.

graphoman

graphoman