Leaking shower
Posted by: Dungassin on 05 July 2010
Just spent 30 minutes on the phone talking to the plumber who refitted one of our bathrooms about the shower, which drips after you run and switch off any of the other taps in that bathroom. He'd originally referred us back to the shower manufacturers, who referred us back to him. 
Unfortunately he's had a heart attack and is off sick for 3 months. So I rang the bathroom showroom, and spoke to the bloke there, who had already also spoken to the manufacturers.
My thoughts run as follows : Having some understanding of pressures and flows (well, I was a "gasman"), it seems to me that the problem must be that when we run/switch off something, you get a pressure surge which temporarily overcomes the valves in the shower. Specs for shower say OK up to 5 Bar, so either we have abnormally high mains pressure (unlikely as we are on the end of our particular water main), or the shower is outside spec.
Hopefully man in showroom will now be chasing manufacturers to get them to come out to do a "service visit".
All bloody annoying, and you can guess who is getting the brunt of SWMBO's displeasure.
Unfortunately he's had a heart attack and is off sick for 3 months. So I rang the bathroom showroom, and spoke to the bloke there, who had already also spoken to the manufacturers.
My thoughts run as follows : Having some understanding of pressures and flows (well, I was a "gasman"), it seems to me that the problem must be that when we run/switch off something, you get a pressure surge which temporarily overcomes the valves in the shower. Specs for shower say OK up to 5 Bar, so either we have abnormally high mains pressure (unlikely as we are on the end of our particular water main), or the shower is outside spec.
Hopefully man in showroom will now be chasing manufacturers to get them to come out to do a "service visit".
All bloody annoying, and you can guess who is getting the brunt of SWMBO's displeasure.
The problem is the shower its self, there could be flux or boss white/blue in the shower because the plumber has not flushed the pipe work
oh by the way i am a plumber
oh by the way i am a plumber
I'm not going to quote - too many individual bits.
1. It's not an electric shower. Connected to cold water supply and the combi-boiler. Shower valve is a Bristan FU MTLSHX C.
2. Quite capable of "bullshitting" SWMBO. Unfortunately she's not particularly susceptible to reason.
3. As the plumber who installed the system is unavailable due to ill-health, I have thrown the problem back at the bathroom showroom. I'll give them to the end of the week, then I'll hassle them again. I have a strong negotiating point, as they know I am proposing to have our other bathroom refitted, and have already had a quote from them.
4. The idea of low pressure as a cause is interesting, but we don't really suffer from that unless all our neighbours decide to use hosepipes at the same time!
5. I must get SWMBO to observe the shower while I open/close other taps in the house to see if that causes the problem as well.
6. I suspect/hope that what will happen is that the bathroom showroom staff will persuade the manufacturers to do a home visit, that they will measure the mains pressure, and then will hopefully supply and pay for the fitting of a replacement shower.
1. It's not an electric shower. Connected to cold water supply and the combi-boiler. Shower valve is a Bristan FU MTLSHX C.
2. Quite capable of "bullshitting" SWMBO. Unfortunately she's not particularly susceptible to reason.
3. As the plumber who installed the system is unavailable due to ill-health, I have thrown the problem back at the bathroom showroom. I'll give them to the end of the week, then I'll hassle them again. I have a strong negotiating point, as they know I am proposing to have our other bathroom refitted, and have already had a quote from them.
4. The idea of low pressure as a cause is interesting, but we don't really suffer from that unless all our neighbours decide to use hosepipes at the same time!
5. I must get SWMBO to observe the shower while I open/close other taps in the house to see if that causes the problem as well.
6. I suspect/hope that what will happen is that the bathroom showroom staff will persuade the manufacturers to do a home visit, that they will measure the mains pressure, and then will hopefully supply and pay for the fitting of a replacement shower.
quote:Originally posted by deadlifter:
The problem is the shower its self, there could be flux or boss white/blue in the shower because the plumber has not flushed the pipe work
oh by the way i am a plumber
Dungassin
What deadlifter said is likely to be the problem. I work in the construction industry and we often have to change ceramic valves/cartridges on taps and showers due to contaminated water because systems are not flushed through correctly.
quote:Originally posted by Julian H:quote:Originally posted by deadlifter:
The problem is the shower its self, there could be flux or boss white/blue in the shower because the plumber has not flushed the pipe work
oh by the way i am a plumber
Dungassin
What deadlifter said is likely to be the problem. I work in the construction industry and we often have to change ceramic valves/cartridges on taps and showers due to contaminated water because systems are not flushed through correctly.
Julian
Working in the construction industry you will know LTHW systems not only require flushing, but also require balancing.
If a tap can be half opened and closed without causing the shower valve to leak, restricting the flow to the tap will cure the leak.
quote:Dungassin, if your shower is passing water constantly there is a problem with your shower valve not your taps or any other item in your house and fitting other valves around the place will not help at all, valves are designed to shut off the supply when not required i.e. closed.
So do not waste time doing other so called checks get whoever you paid for the product in question to come round your property and fix the issue, heart attack or not, in nearly 30 years of being in the plumbing industry i have never heard such utter bollocks as what you are being told to do by people not in the trade.
I take it you were on the tools in the gas so if a gas valve were passing by would you start valving other appliances ?? NO you would realise that there was a problem at the point in question and rectify that.
To repeat, the problem is that there is a short lived leak from the shower head when the other taps in the bathroom are opened and then closed. e.g. The leak occurs for about 3 seconds after the sink cold water tap is closed.
Gasman? I am a retired Consultant Anaesthetist/Intensive Care Specialist. Like all anaesthetists, I have a degree level understanding of the physics of fluid flow. Anaesthetists are commonly referred to as "gasmen" - hence my username here.
Ok understand the dungassin bit now
if that's all the problem is then don't worry about it and don't get valving anything
if that's all the problem is then don't worry about it and don't get valving anything
quote:Originally posted by deadlifter:
Dungassin, if your shower is passing water constantly there is a problem with your shower valve not your taps or any other item in your house and fitting other valves around the place will not help at all, valves are designed to shut off the supply when not required i.e. closed.
So do not waste time doing other so called checks get whoever you paid for the product in question to come round your property and fix the issue, heart attack or not, in nearly 30 years of being in the plumbing industry i have never heard such utter bollocks as what you are being told to do by people not in the trade.
I take it you were on the tools in the gas so if a gas valve were passing by would you start valving other appliances ?? NO you would realise that there was a problem at the point in question and rectify that.
I don’t understand you’re negative responses to my suggestions. All I’m doing is suggesting a few tricks of the TRADE, the TRADE being a building controls designer. I routinely design control systems for LTHW installations containing 100’s of valves.
I may not be a plumber, but I do design the plumbing system.
quote:Gasman? I am a retired Consultant Anaesthetist/Intensive Care Specialist. Like all anaesthetists, I have a degree level understanding of the physics of fluid flow. Anaesthetists are commonly referred to as "gasmen" - hence my username here.
As I see it, opening then closing a tap causes the pressure to drop then rise at the shower valve, causing it to leak. There must be a value of pressure drop/rise below which the valve will not to leak.
Reducing the flow through the tap will reduce the pressure drop/rise. If adequate flow through the tap can be achieved without the shower leaking, problem solved.
You were an anaesthetist. A man afraid of low humidity.
Designed the controls for a few laminar flow unit in my time.
quote:As I see it, opening then closing a tap causes the pressure to drop then rise at the shower valve, causing it to leak. There must be a value of pressure drop/rise below which the valve will not to leak.
Reducing the flow through the tap will reduce the pressure drop/rise. If adequate flow through the tap can be achieved without the shower leaking, problem solved.
You were an anaesthetist. A man afraid of low humidity.
Designed the controls for a few laminar flow unit in my time.
It's all a bit moot ATM, as Bristan are sending one of their engineers to look at it on 19th July.
Yup, anaesthetists don't like low humidity - at least in the gases that are actually going into the patient. Being a bit of a cynic, I always thought the main benefit of all those antibacterial filters we started using on the ends of anaesthetic/ventilator circuits towards the end of my career benefitted the patient more by helping to humidify the inthaled gases.
Humidity within the actual anaesthetic machine/ventilator is, of course, a bad thing - makes the valves stick etc.
Ah, the "joys" of explaining how fluid logic ventilators work to junior staff/nurses/students ... usually involved a long lecture on fluid mechanics.
