Integrated

Posted by: redeye on 03 March 2002

Folks.....
A friend wants to buy a new amp to replace an old and now dead Harmon Kardon. He uses a Marantz cd, Arcam tuner and B&W 603S2 speakers.
Now I've suggested a Nait but he's not keen on anything with that little power to throw around. I've mentioned the fact that Naim watts are different to everybody elses idea of WPC but its still the great big NO.
Does anyone have any recommendations for him? As a Naim person myself I tend not to bother checking out other gear so hence I'm totally out of touch with whats out there..

Basically he wants really good sound and PLENTY of juice to drive the speakers loudly as well as good control at lesser volumes.

I haven't got the slighest idea... any thoughts??

Cheers

Posted on: 04 March 2002 by Peter Stockwell

quote:
Originally posted by redeye:

Now I've suggested a Nait but he's not keen on anything with that little power to throw around. I've mentioned the fact that Naim watts are different to everybody elses idea of WPC but its still the great big NO.
....
Basically he wants really good sound and PLENTY of juice to drive the speakers loudly as well as good control at lesser volumes.
I haven't got the slighest idea... any thoughts??
Cheers

Try one more time, tell him that most of the time a system runs at less than 1 watt, and it's absolutely the 1st watt that counts. I have a Nait5 and it plays my B&W CDM1ses louder than the biamped 80W*4 I had before, and is absolutely a delight at low volumes ... although I always want to crank it up. Dynamic range in a hifi system is not about a gazillion watts per channel, it's about how low the noise floor is, i.e. it's in the details.

Failing that there's no hope for him.

Peter

Posted on: 04 March 2002 by redeye

Thanks guys....but put it this way.....
Said friend recently baby-sat a big (and I do mean BIG) Yamaha integrated while his bro-in-law was out of town. This bloody thing is about 14 years old and the same size as a compact microwave oven, weighs about 15kg. OK so it sounded pretty crude (alright, very crude) but the fact remains that it gripped his speakers in ways that no 50/60/70 watt audiophile design ever has

I couldn't live with it but I can see what he's driving at. Fact is he's one of those people who want GRUNT and lots of it. His take on the Yamaha was much the same as mine...wouldn't want to go there but had huge fun while it was around.
He does not have cloth ears by the way.

What he probably needs is a decent USA muscle amp but his lovely wife would leave him for sure if he spent that sort of money.

Posted on: 04 March 2002 by redeye

James

Yes, quite agree. Flatted with a Mac 150b whilst in Dunedin.
Total Pig and no mistake

Just luved the poxy gold bolts on the fascia.

Posted on: 04 March 2002 by Frank Abela

It's those 603S2's which are screwing him over. Geezer speakers at best, they really take some current to keep under control. Ah well...

If you really can't get him to try a Nait5, how about something like an Arcam A85? Pretty powerful, fairly big sound, fairly quick. Alternatively, there's the Rotel amps - a 1060 or 1075 for more grunt.

2nd hand? How about a Densen b200/300 combination - LOADS of power but possibly too much money.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 05 March 2002 by Name

Check out the Plinius 8200i integrated or the Perraux integrated.......I also see you've got your PMC's on the market and your 92 PRE Redeye.....what are you looking to go to?

Posted on: 06 March 2002 by redeye

Gentlemen.....
I thank you for your replies...much appreciated.
Seems the lad in question has decided an Arcam Alpha 10 is the new thing confused

Sounds 'just like the pub' apparently confused

I give up

Posted on: 06 March 2002 by tzk

sugden? creek?

Posted on: 06 March 2002 by Top Cat

I still have an Alpha 10 AV system, although it's been boxed up for a few months now whilst I start 'downsizing' in preparation for building work and redecoration in the house. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that the A10 is actually not a bad amp at all. Whilst a Nait-2 (or 5) is definitely more 'PRaT'-based, the A10 is more revealing and with some systems and speakers will be an easier and less aggressive listen. Sure, with other speakers it will sound lethargic and dull, but then it's all about matching.

On a Mana rack, Arcam kit improves far more dramatically than low-end Naim kit or my current kit - this was the primary reason I ever went down the Mana route, as it gave the Arcam amp a bit of extra PRaT and control over the 'unMana'd' amp.

HOWEVER, it won't be everybody's cup of tea, and whilst I managed to get a good sound out of it, it never quite scaled my expectations. Moving up in the world, amp-wise, the deficiencies of both the Nait-2 and the Arcam 10, both of which I still own, are obvious. However, the Nait-2 (as opposed to 5, which I concede may be better) represents terrific value and therefore should never be overlooked. Just don't get snobby over the Arcam stuff - with careful setup, it can do the job well enough...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Posted on: 06 March 2002 by Rico

Frank

quote:
Geezer speakers at best

Brilliant! I now have a picture of a bloke in sheepskin jacket driving a SIII Jag or 7 series Beemer on G-plate, in serch of more Japanese muscle for his current-hungry B&W's. The east-end will never be the same.

Or worse still, the 603's in the back seat!

Redeye

A friend of mine many years ago was sick of my questions and continual disagreement with his ideas of music reproduction... (I was still hell-bent on Japanese HiFi and hadn't yet grasped the value of a good turntable)... his words "I'll not discuss this with you any further - you'll just have to come and hear it for yourself". The man was right. The moral? Get him to listen with his own ears. If the brain doesn't follow, all well and good. A good demo should provide him with the info he requires, rather than discussion over a pint or three! Now there's a novel concept.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Posted on: 08 March 2002 by kentonious

Ayre Acoustics has a new integrated, the AX-7
which is getting quite a bit of notice in the USA. It is 60 watts and is US $2500 which
is exactly the price of a Nait5/flatcap2(in the states). My dealer has both and I can't decide
yet. Many say Ayre is not for Rock 'N Rollers
however; I disagree--I think it is versatile. Also note that Ayre's watt rating(like Naim)is very conversative.

Posted on: 08 March 2002 by kentonious

The latter implies a speech ability! I got
it bass-ackwards. Thanks.

Posted on: 09 March 2002 by redeye

The deed is done

...I think. Seems Arcams mighty Alpha whatever wins the day.
Cheers for all your contributions...none of which did a blind bit of good

Appreciate the effort though

Rgds
redeye