tune test...

Posted by: ken c on 17 September 2001

i'm looking to understand in a bit more detail what the "tune test" really entails. answers like "if you can sing along, ..." etc etc, are not very useful to me as i can along to my car radio when i am in the right mood and the right music is on. but i know my naim hifi is much better than my car radio -- no question.

one of the things i expect when i am doing critical listening is that harmonies should be clearly delineated and yet paradoxically, should be integrated into the "performance".

the other thing i look for is that when drums are hit, i can really hear the thwark! pow! doooom! passsshhhh! i also like a real sense of poise and power.

is this all covered by the tune test?? ken to Tony L -- do you read?
anyone else?

please, i dont really want to discuss the general aspects of hifi, imaging, bass amount, etc -- important though these may be. i just want to know in some detail how you conduct the tune dem. i dont really want to hear about what rack does what -- there are plenty of other threads that have covered this to death.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 17 September 2001 by ken c

by the way, congratulations on your new CDX purchase. does it play "tunes"??

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 17 September 2001 by Tony L

quote:
i'm looking to understand in a bit more detail what the "tune test" really entails. answers like "if you can sing along, ..." etc etc, are not very useful to me as i can along to my car radio when i am in the right mood and the right music is on.

I personally find it a very useful tool in A B dems, almost invariably one component communicates the “tune” better than the other. I guess defining the term tune will vary from one person to another. For me it is the combination of pitch and time of every instrument in the mix, and also how these individual instrumental relate to one another as a whole. The question is how easy is it to follow what a given instrument is doing – what notes are being played, and when are they being played. Look at it from the perspective of someone who was to transcribe a piece of music by ear to a score (something I couldn’t personally do as I don’t read / write musical notation), but one of any two components would make the job easier, that is the right choice!

This area is typical of the whole flat earth / round earth divide, the flat earth priorities are pitch and timing, and the round earth objective seems to be accurate resolution of instrumental timbre at any cost. For me it simply does not matter if you can tell a Steinway piano from a Yamaha if you can’t workout whether the pianist is any good, or what he is playing and when he is playing it. Once again the Hammersmith hi-fi show proved categorically how poor most hi-fi is at the pitch and timing, with Chord taking this years prize for buggering up a song I recognised the most!

quote:
i just want to know in some detail how you conduct the tune dem.

I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules. Once you realise that there are absolutely massive differences in competing components abilities in carrying a tune, then listening to them is easy. I always start off listening off axis so I am not taken in by any sonic fireworks, if the equipment can’t play music then it is obvious from anywhere in the room.

quote:
by the way, congratulations on your new CDX purchase. does it play "tunes"??

Its been on for under 24 hours and it sounds fabulous, musically it took my CD17KI outside and totally kicked it to death, and the Marantz is a great player in its price class. The CDX beats the Marantz equally on flat and round earth elements. A hell of a player.

The whole system rebalancing plan is working stunningly well so far, my current CDX / Nait 2 / Kan II absolutely kills the old CD17KI / 32.5 / Hicap / 250 / Kan II system in every way – it actually sounds far bigger and more powerful too! Front end first bloody works. Still got to sort out a phono stage before I can play any vinyl, but with CD sounding as good as this I don’t mind waiting a bit.

Tony.

Posted on: 17 September 2001 by ken c

Look at it from the perspective of someone who was to transcribe a piece of music by ear to a score (something I couldn’t personally do as I don’t read / write musical notation), but one of any two components would make the job easier, that is the right choice!

tony, many thanks. i have often thought and tried to use precisely this method. i can write music. but i have not done this in an A/B comparison. i have only tried to use it to disgnose a problem but have always found that my mind wanders off to other aspects of the music - especially emotion, poise, excitement --if you like -- the things around the music, rather than the music itself.

i waffle so...

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 17 September 2001 by Mike Hanson

quote:
CDX / Nait 2 / Kan II absolutely kills the old CD17KI / 32.5 / Hicap / 250 / Kan II

I would have been surprised by any anything else, Tony. The CDX is a superb player, and it does a great job of adding body to the music. Congrats, and have fun!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

[This message was edited by Mike Hanson on TUESDAY 18 September 2001 at 01:11.]

Posted on: 17 September 2001 by Steve Toy

I am not surprised that the new set up sounds better than the old. I would imagine that the 250 would be showing what is wrong with the 32.5, whilst screaming,
"Give me an 82, and while you're at it, get rid of that bloody Marantz CD player, I can't make head or tail of what it is trying to tell me!"
OTOH, The Nait 2 would be so flattered to be given the job of delivering a CDX, that it would be glowing with pride!
"Ooh, I *Kan* do this, I know I *Kan*!"

The only thing is, that the CDX would be saying to the Kans,
"I'm sure I sent you some awesome bass notes. What have you done with them?"

The Kans would reply,
"Steady on old chap, but my voice hasn't broken yet, but I *Kan* definitely pitch all the higher notes!"

It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve